Handgun Hunting

[TheTooner]

I don't think there is a federal regulation that expressly forbids handgun hunting. There is just a policy that CFOs only issue ATTs to approved ranges. And as long as a province's regulations mention "no hunting with restricted or handguns" the CFO has at least that reason to refuse an ATT to any hunting ground.

Hunting regulations are provincial so I agree it has to be addressed first at the provincial level. If we can persuade the provinces that expressly forbid handgun hunting to remove those words from their regulations we can start the campaign against the federal regulation, pointing out that the only reason a handgun isn't an appropriate gun for hunting is a federal regulation saying that handguns are not allowed for hunting.

I think some provinces are better candidates than others. Once one province allows handguns for hunting, even if their CFO follows a federal policy of not granting ATTs, we have a crack we can chip away at.

 

[tootall]

Mmattockx and Tooner understand it.

The feds and the provinces point at each other and tell us that the other guys rules prevent themselves from doing anything.

Its got to change somewhere first, and changing provincial regs is probably the better way to go. Get in touch with your Wildlife Fed in your own province, and make a resolution the next time resolutions are asked for.

 

[malcolm]

the government in this country is about 50 years behind the times . they don't want us to posse a hand gun let alone use it for hunting they are afraid they might make a dollar or two .

 

[bjhill]

You must live in the Jane finch area to be able to hunt with a hand gun.

 

[tactical870]

So the question is why is handgun hunting not allowed by the provinces? We should find out exactly why......

 

[mmattockx]

I got a response back from AFGA today.

The response:

Resolution was forwarded to Ab Government and they responded that handguns were a federal responsibility and left it at that. Please click on the following link to see all responses to our resolutions under the sub-headings “Conference” and “Resolutions”. http://www.afga.org/index.html?func=library

The link to all of the AFGA resolutions: http://www.afga.org/index.html?func=library

The 2010 resolutions: http://www.afga.org/documents.html?fileID=506

The handgun hunting resolution is #G-7-2010.

The 2010 government responses: http://www.afga.org/documents.html?fileID=542

I quote:

Handguns are restricted by federal legislation. Reference to this will be retained.

I will post when I have found who to contact about this in the Alberta government. It is bulls**t and high time it was corrected.

Mark

 

[Dench]

This country could not even get rid of lgr. I don't think we will be hunting with handguns anytime soon.

 

[mmattockx]

This country could not even get rid of lgr. I don't think we will be hunting with handguns anytime soon.

True, but changing the provincial hunting regs doesn't involve a vote in a whipped minority parliament or convincing the sheeple or MSM that it is a good idea.

I just got another reply from AFGA about contacting the government. Damn, these guys are efficient, I may have to join just out of thanks.

They suggest contacting Ed Stelmach, Mel Knight and your local MLA. They said that Fish and Game is a waste of time because they will only parrot the party line and are too low on the totem pole to influence policy.

Ed Stelmach: fortsaskatchewan.vegreville@assembly.ab.ca

Mel Knight: grandeprairie.smoky@assembly.ab.ca

Look up your MLA here: http://alberta.ca/home/mla_contacts.cfm

It is probably wise to quote the AFGA resolution and government response because the MLA's will likely not have a clue what we are talking about. There is also a phone number given on the government response letter as a contact for additional questions on game concerns. Maybe we should all call that contact and politely inquire as to what federal regulation restricts handgun hunting.

Let's keep it all professional and reasonable, screaming and shouting will not get us anywhere. Spell check letters and emails sent and have them proof read by another set of eyes if you are unsure of grammar and/or phrasing. Be aware that emails carry almost no weight with politicians and can easily be deleted by an assistant without the MLA reading it. The best is a handwritten letter, with a typed and signed letter close behind. Letters can be faxed rather than snail mailed if you have access to a fax machine. There are also free online fax services that let you send one or two faxes per day free. Adding a CC list to your letter is a good idea, because each recipient must copy the letter and send it to all the people on the CC list to ensure they receive it. Done correctly, sending 5 letters can generate 25 copies floating around the legislature. Don't forget to sign your letter and include a return address and phone number for the MLA to contact you if they want.

Mark

 

[Duffy]

The AF&GA resolution was a valid one and Alberta Fish and Wildlife should have went along with it.

[COLOR="black"]It is unlawful to:

5. set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting any wildlife:
-
-
- a pistol or revolver[/COLOR]

Some years back -a cross bow was on this same list. AF&GA asked that they remove cross bow from the list and they did and then they opened some areas to the use of cross bow on their own.


If Alberta Fish & Wildlife excuse is "Oh thats a Federal thing" then they should not be making handgun regulations at all and should therefore remove it from the list.


Earlier resolutions were directed at having a limited, controlled handgun hunt on the Canadian Forces base at Wainwright. There is a very controlled deer hunt there now for Muzzleloaders and then for rifles. It would be an ideal place to have a handgun hunt.

We definitely should continue fighting for something like this. It would be a small victory for gun owners and we have been fighting a defensive battle for so long a small victory would be great.

How could anyone argue against a controlled handgun hunt for deer at Wainwright?

 

[mmattockx]

How could anyone argue against a controlled handgun hunt for deer at Wainwright?

I would like to know why it should be small and/or controlled at all? I am a new hunter (last year was my first big game season), but I see no reason why it should be limited any more than rifles. Bow hunters do not face any special limitations that I know of, so why should handgun hunters?

Mark

 

[smartassbrat]

I wonder if the OFAH would get involed?

 

[hunt365]

I am not sure but if you really carefully read the regs it doesn't stipulate no restrictions for hunting via handguns simply caliber size and center fire vs. Rim fire restrictions. If a person could attain an ATT then he/she could potentially hunt with a handgun I would think. However the MNR would quickly change the regsif they got wind of it I am sure!!!

 

[mvarley84]

I am not sure but if you really carefully read the regs it doesn't stipulate no restrictions for hunting via handguns simply caliber size and center fire vs. Rim fire restrictions. If a person could attain an ATT then he/she could potentially hunt with a handgun I would think. However the MNR would quickly change the regsif they got wind of it I am sure!!!

You should re-read the regs...page 21 states specifically no handguns or full-auto...It makes no mention of restricted or non-restricted.

 

[tjhaile]

I wonder if the OFAH would get involed?

Several years ago, OFAH actually blocked an attempt by another organization to set up a trial handgun hunt in Ontario.

 

[atr]

Several years ago, OFAH actually blocked an attempt by another organization to set up a trial handgun hunt in Ontario.

That's exactly right . In 1983/1984 , my club , Northcountry Handgun Club collected 15,000 individual letters , no internet then , presented them to the OHA (ontario handgun association) who are now the CSSA and they had a series of meeting with government ministers from natural resources to the attourney general of Ontario for a return , yes , return to handgun hunting . A 'Stakeholders' meeting was called and with the weight of 75,000? members , the OFAH killed it . That's when i and many dropped our membership to the southern Ontario old boys fishing club .

For those who don't know , go to the library and pick up two copies of the Ontario Hunting Regs , one from 1978 and one from 1979 . The act was opened to include the addition of , no hunting with pistols , revolvers or handguns . It was perfectly legal up to and including 1978 . In 1978 i took my last legal game in Ontario with a handgun . A moose north of Sudbury with a Ruger Blackhawk .41 magnum .

Since there were almost no 'authorized' ranges in northern and northwestern Ontario until 1979 and later , our ATT's simply said , for the purpose of target shooting , but didn't specify where and under the Fish and Game act it was not illegal to hunt with a handgun so we did .

 

[daveg01]

I would love to see this. In Ontario the key will be to get the OFAH on side, which as I understand will be near impossible...

 

[simonsez]

that's exactly right . In 1983/1984 , my club , northcountry handgun club collected 15,000 individual letters , no internet then , presented them to the oha (ontario handgun association) who are now the cssa and they had a series of meeting with government ministers from natural resources to the attourney general of ontario for a return , yes , return to handgun hunting . A 'stakeholders' meeting was called and with the weight of 75,000? Members , the ofah killed it . That's when i and many dropped our membership to the southern ontario old boys fishing club .

For those who don't know , go to the library and pick up two copies of the ontario hunting regs , one from 1978 and one from 1979 . The act was opened to include the addition of , no hunting with pistols , revolvers or handguns . It was perfectly legal up to and including 1978 . In 1978 i took my last legal game in ontario with a handgun . A moose north of sudbury with a ruger blackhawk .41 magnum .

Since there were almost no 'authorized' ranges in northern and northwestern ontario until 1979 and later , our att's simply said , for the purpose of target shooting , but didn't specify where and under the fish and game act it was not illegal to hunt with a handgun so we did .

 

[smartassbrat]

Then why would the federation NOT back having handgun hunting?
They must know they lost members?

 

[tactical870]

I just recieved an email back from MNR in ONT telling me that hunting with a handgun is NOT illegal in Ontario. They clearly stated that it is not illegal. Here is their reply:

Hello,



Thank you for your enquiry.



The use of handguns to hunt is not prohibited by Ontario legislation, but by the fact that possession and use of handguns is legislated under the Criminal Code and federal Firearms Act.



If a person lawfully possesses a handgun and is lawfully allowed to use it as set out in the Criminal Code and Firearms Act then the person could use it to hunt in Ontario within the confines of types and calibres of firearms that can be used to hunt under Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting) of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act.


Under the Criminal Code:



“handgun” means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands;



prohibited firearm” means



(a) a handgun that



(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or



(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge, but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,



(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,



(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or



(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,



(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or



(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;



Many of the firearms, both shotguns and rifles, you are seeing in stores with pistol grips and shorter barrels are still considered long guns and are non-restricted. They may be used for hunting purposes in Ontario.



If you require further assistance please contact the Canadian Firearms Centre at 1-800-731-4000 regarding the possession, transport and use of handguns in Ontario.



Regards,



nric web reader - cg

 

[ronecol]

What?? We can't hunt with a handgun in Ontario??

Oh I guess it was a flashback from 1956.... Sure was better times then.

Ron