Hathcock shot, sorta

Boomer said:
When Carlos shot the NVA sniper I doubt it was from particularly long range, despite his 700 yard zero. Those guys had been stalking each other for quite some time before Carlos got his shot at the sun glinting from the objective of what is a very small and very short 3X Chicom scope. These things are probably little more than 6" long and the objective diameter is little more than 1" in diameter. Whether it is as likely to stop a heavy bullet from a .30/06 as effectively as a modern scope is a point of conjecture. Carlos never claimed the shot was anything more than a fluke, and unlike Myth Busters, who as often as not come up with an incorrect conclusion from a test plagued with unrealistic parameters; whether they are blasting concrete from inside a mixer truck, shooting a bullet into the cylinder of a revolver, or shooting through a scope, I won't bring Hathcock's honesty into question over a one a million chance shot, made during a dangerous confrontation, under combat conditions, in which he prevailed. It doesn't have to work every time, it just had to work the time he did it.
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IIRC The shot was far enough that Carlos saw a glint and not a shooter...No idea what that meant or means, but it wasn't real close is the gist I got.
Might be time to dig out his book again, but that is what I remember?

There is no doubt in my mind that what Carlos said actually happened.
I never met the man (God rest his soul) but having read his book and watched his interviews his matter of fact honesty seemed crystal clear to me.

Strange how the battle hardened snipers are generally so straight up, modest, and understated.....Take Rob Furlong for instance.
 
Didn't mythbusters call it plausible? They did this shoot twice, the first time was not with period equipment, the second was. I thought they said it was possible but unlikely to shoot through a scope. Here is the exerpt from their website:
Finding: PLAUSIBLE

Explanation: According to battlefield legend, a U.S. Marine sniper named Carlos Hathcock killed another sniper during the Vietnam War by firing a bullet directly through his opponent's scope. But MythBusters Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage shot down the credibility of this tale when they re-created the sniper showdown.

After constructing a ballistics-gel sniper dummy and outfitting it with a sniper gun and scope, the MythBusters marksmen took aim from 100 yards away. Adam's and Jamie's sniper skills were spot on, and both hit the target square in the scope. However, the glass lenses inside the scope, which allow the operatives to precisely pinpoint objects from long distances, stopped the bullet short from striking the dummy sniper. Even at point-blank range, the bullet's force failed to shatter through the entire scope lens glass, providing a fatal shot to the busted myth.

However, at the request of some skeptical fans, the MythBusters later retested the myth using a Vietnam-era sniper gun and ammo, which yielded a plausible result. The period scope had fewer bullet-obstructing glass elements, and the old-school sniper bullet actually packed more glass-breaking punch.

Today's sniper might miss the mark by shooting to kill through the scope, but during the Vietnam War, a shot through the scope could've very well happened.

As seen in "MythBusters: Firearms Folklore" and "Myths Redux"

I am no trained shooter, but like I said earlier, it can be done, sure I used more rifle and a hunting bullet but it is possible, and I for one believe it happened as described in Hathcock's book.
 
When I was filming SHOOTER they were going to do some kinda take off on this theme and asked me if I could shoot one.So I took an older 4x with a steel body to the range and blasted a hole through it from one end to the other first try.I was at 25 m.Other shows have asked for the same thing and I have wrecked a few scopes in the process.Seems the aluminum bodies and extra lenses don't allow bullets to go straight through anymore.I'm sure CH did it and that it was a fluke.Like I always say, sometimes a lucky miss/hit is what legends are made of.
 
X-fan said:
IIRC The shot was far enough that Carlos saw a glint and not a shooter...No idea what that meant or means, but it wasn't real close is the gist I got.
Might be time to dig out his book again, but that is what I remember?

There is no doubt in my mind that what Carlos said actually happened.
I never met the man (God rest his soul) but having read his book and watched his interviews his matter of fact honesty seemed crystal clear to me.

Strange how the battle hardened snipers are generally so straight up, modest, and understated.....Take Rob Furlong for instance.
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Speaking of Hathcock's honesty, and having watched those same interviews I agree completely. You could take what he said to the bank. The part of the interview that really sold me on his honesty was the portion that dealt with the Apache Woman. That is when I said, "Damn, I wish I had known that guy!"

The reasons I doubt that the range was particularly long was as follows:
Carlos was a master of concealment and moving undercover without being detected. The NVA sniper used a 3X scope which would have made it impossible to pick out the small details required in order to identify his target at long range. The fact that Carlos shot though that scope meant that the enemy sniper was sighting on him, so he had either seen Carlos, or been attempting to identify something that appeared unusual though his scope, neither of which would seem reasonable at long range through a 3X scope. I assume that the bullet from the M-70 must have also been on a flat trajectory, rather than plunging as it does at long range, to make it through the narrow confines of the scope tube. Had that bullet been tipped off its axis the slightest little bit, it would have failed to penetrate in a straight line.
 
In one incredible incident an enemy sniper was killed after a prolonged game of "cat and mouse" between Carlos, with his spotter, and the NVA sniper. The fatal round, fired at 500 yards by Hathcock, passed directly through the NVA sniper's rifle scope, striking him in the eye.
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I believe he brought back the rifle as a trophy.... I remember reading that it was in a museum now.....

This is suppose to be him with the rifle in question.

CarloswithMN.jpg
 
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Why would Hathcock...and his spotter, lie about such an event. If I remember correctly it was his spotter that noticed the shot went through the scope. It was probably a less than notable event to them, but since hollywood has focused on the idea so much, everyone is out to prove/disprove the idea. One in a million shot for an average Joe, not so difficult when done by a true proffesional.
 
This is turning into a quite enlightening thread.

For what its worth. I think you can put a lot more store in the word of a man who patently has the courage of his convictions; In that he has gone to war and has been through things that most of us thank the Lord may never see; Than you ever can of the word of two extremely camp, media whoring twins.

I find it hard to believe how much TV some of you guys rely on for your beliefs.
 
Boomer said:
Speaking of Hathcock's honesty, and having watched those same interviews I agree completely. You could take what he said to the bank. The part of the interview that really sold me on his honesty was the portion that dealt with the Apache Woman. That is when I said, "Damn, I wish I had known that guy!"

The reasons I doubt that the range was particularly long was as follows:
Carlos was a master of concealment and moving undercover without being detected. The NVA sniper used a 3X scope which would have made it impossible to pick out the small details required in order to identify his target at long range. The fact that Carlos shot though that scope meant that the enemy sniper was sighting on him, so he had either seen Carlos, or been attempting to identify something that appeared unusual though his scope, neither of which would seem reasonable at long range through a 3X scope. I assume that the bullet from the M-70 must have also been on a flat trajectory, rather than plunging as it does at long range, to make it through the narrow confines of the scope tube. Had that bullet been tipped off its axis the slightest little bit, it would have failed to penetrate in a straight line.
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True that!
The man reeked of integrity...Rare these days.

My point of curiousity was Carlos was using a higher power scope and that he shot a "flash" (not a figure) which lead me to believe it was a decently long shot??
 
X-fan said:
True that!
The man reeked of integrity...Rare these days.

My point of curiousity was Carlos was using a higher power scope and that he shot a "flash" (not a figure) which lead me to believe it was a decently long shot??
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as in muzzle flash? I recall reading it was the glare of the scope from the sun. I gotta find back that book
 
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