Minimum legth to be considered a flintlock rifle

[Dj_Squelch]

I know that Flintlock rifles are not regulated in any fashion while flintlock pistols are restricted. My question is what is the minimum length for a flintlock rifle? I assume it's 26" but you know what they say about assuming!

 

[mooncoon]

the definition of a handgun is that it is designed to be shot with one hand so the length and configuration of the stock would enter into the equation. Having said that, as applies to flintlocks of modern manufacture, I think you would be asking for significant legal expenses if the barrel was less than 18.5". If the gun was original and cut down for some reason, there is probably more leeway but still a gamble if ever inspected by the police
Just my opinion

cheers mooncoon

 

[tonyg]

just to help muddy the water

"prohibited firearm" means
(a) a handgun that
(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;

 

[david doyle]

If you gotta ask you are probabley not thinking smart thoughts.

If you have some real need for a short flintlock rifle call the CFO and ask them what your options are.

 

[Dj_Squelch]

If you gotta ask you are probabley not thinking smart thoughts.

If you have some real need for a short flintlock rifle call the CFO and ask them what your options are.

I'm not up to anything nefarious, honest! I'm looking at a flintlock blunderbuss with a 14" barrel and a horse pistol with a 16" barrel but a shorter stock. Trying to figure out exactly whats legit so I can own the flintlocks I want without breaking any rules.

 

[tiriaq]

If you call the gun a "horse pistol", does that suggest that it might be a pistol?
A 14" barrelled blunderbuss with a buttstock is likely going to be over 26". Even if it is one of the shorter Middle East bazaar tourist guns, it is still looks like a shoulder gun.
Look at the situation with respect to the various shortguns so popular with the "tactical" shotgun crowd, or things like the "mare's leg" lever guns. Situation is muddy enough with cartridge firearms. I don't know of any definitive classifications of modern flintlocks, what defines the difference between a FL handgun and long gun. There isn't even a standard definition of what constitutes the receiver of a non-antique ml gun.

 

[Dj_Squelch]

If you call the gun a "horse pistol", does that suggest that it might be a pistol?

I hear ya! But, the OAL on the horse pistol is actually longer than my tacticool shotgun that you referenced. Would it help if I called it a short horse rifle?

I think this one here is the biggie:

"handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands;

I don't feel like arguing that the flintlock mentioned above is too big for one hand to fire. I think you could, but the lawyer fees wouldn't be worth it!

BUT

if you read this:

Black Powder Reproductions:

of flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearms, other than handguns, manufactured after 1897; (All other reproductions must be registered and owners must have a firearm licence to possess them. For example, reproductions of percussion cap muzzle-loading firearms like American Civil War Enfield and Springfield rifles will be considered firearms and not antiques.)

the only thing it says is that your flintlock can't be a handgun, it says nothing about requiring it to be non restricted.

So can I conclude that I can legally have a flintlock of any length as long as it's not a handgun?

 

[david doyle]

Below is strictly based on opinion, a oiji board and guesses:

So can I conclude that I can legally have a flintlock of any length as long as it's not a handgun?

short answer yes

I'm not up to anything nefarious, honest! I'm looking at a flintlock blunderbuss with a 14" barrel and a horse pistol with a 16" barrel but a shorter stock. Trying to figure out exactly whats legit so I can own the flintlocks I want without breaking any rules.

Gotcha, Hope I did'nt sound accusatory, just hate the thought of anyone gettting in trouble.

If the 14 inch blunderbuss is designed to be fired with both hands (like below)I am thinking you are OK with it as a non registered flintlock.

If the horse pistol looks like the below image, no matter how long the barrel is, the design is for one handed operation and thus it is a pistol. If modern manufacture it requires registration.

In modern manufacture flintlocks in original configuration if designed for 2 hand operation it is a rifle (regardless of barrel length and OAL) if it is designed for one handed operation it is a pistol (regardless of barrel length and OAL)

Again I am just making this up on the fly so check with the CFO if you are uncertain. Permission is way cheaper then forgivenss.

 

[mooncoon]

It comes back to my original statement; a handgun is defined as a gun that is designed to be shot with one hand so the horse pistol is a restricted weapon for any barrel length over 105 mm
The blunderbuss is a different situation; I can't remember the section of law which says it but a long gun may have a barrel shorter than 18 or 18.5 inches ( depends on shotgun or rifle) if it was manufactured that way. If you buy a blunderbuss or build one from a manufactured barrel and if it has a two handed stock then it should be non restricted much like those short barreled shotguns I see in the stores. I think you would however be wise to write to the identification technicians in Ottawa for a letter of confirmation. I would not particularly rely on advice from the CFC over the phone.
Just my opinion anyway

cheers mooncoon

 

[Dj_Squelch]

Gotcha, Hope I did'nt sound accusatory, just hate the thought of anyone gettting in trouble.

Gotcha! I'm new to this chunk of CGN and I'm not just sure how people are going to react to my desire for less practical muzzle loaders And trust me, I REALLY don't want to get in trouble! Hence all the question asking!

I think you would however be wise to write to the identification technicians in Ottawa for a letter of confirmation. I would not particularly rely on advice from the CFC over the phone.

Ya I think this is going to be the way to go.

And to think, this all started out with me looking for a blunderbuss and seeing the extra long pistol there and suddenly needing to know!

 

[gabrielguitars]

I have also wondered about this question, as The Rifle Shoppe sells parts to build a flintlock mortar. It is essentially an early grenade-launcher, and has a huge barrel that is only about 4 or 5" long, but made to shoot tennis balls. It has a buttstock, and is made to be shot like a rifle, but the overall is in the 18 - 20" range. It would be cool, but is some numbskull cop going to hang me for it???

 

[mooncoon]

Cannons and mortars seem to fall into a grey area and I think may usually be considered signaling devices. They are not considered handguns because they are not designed to be fired with one hand nor are they rifles/shotguns. The place where you would be most likely to run into problems would be Customs because they are in a position of having to have an opinion.
Once in Canada it becomes a ornament or a signaling device as long as you are not doing something stupid that obliges the police to render an opinion. At that point its status will probably vary with the individual.
Just my opinion anyhow

cheers mooncoon

 

[david doyle]

as long as you are not doing something stupid

words to live by!