No,, you don't understand at all. I'm not a safety nazi and I don't actually care what you do. You asked for advice and i gave it. What you do is your business and more power to you.
Who likes to play with high pressure?
- Thread starter fuzzynuts54
- Start date
No,, you don't understand at all. I'm not a safety nazi and I don't actually care what you do. You asked for advice and i gave it. What you do is your business and more power to you.
I was not implying you had safety concerns for me, I understand how you would be concerned
for yourself if you were in my shoes. However I'm not the type to shat my drawers at the first sign of trouble, mabey I'm just stupid. I tend to see how far I can go firsthand... So I really understand. Sometimes I end up sore. In this case, I'll wear safety glasses and be more concerned with the weather.
for yourself if you were in my shoes. However I'm not the type to shat my drawers at the first sign of trouble, mabey I'm just stupid. I tend to see how far I can go firsthand... So I really understand. Sometimes I end up sore. In this case, I'll wear safety glasses and be more concerned with the weather.
I wasn't rying to be a ####, sorry if it came out that way. Shooting that ammo isn't the safest way to go but it's probably not a big deal. If your rifle is a modern make and in good shape it will just bleed off the gas and probably not damage anything. You've already split some cases and nothing bad happened.
There are some pictures floating around the internet of guys who have blown up an action while shooting and some of the injuries are horrific, but that mostly comes from having a plugged barrel or a double charge.
There are some pictures floating around the internet of guys who have blown up an action while shooting and some of the injuries are horrific, but that mostly comes from having a plugged barrel or a double charge.
Well, if saying fuzzy's approach is stupid is being a ####, I'll take it on. It is not a good idea to test the ability of your gun to contain excess pressure, because ONE mistake too many will result in serious injury. You don't "work up" to being blind. It just happens. My favorite hunting partner is blind in one eye from a shooting accident with a .22RF in his youth.
You should always wear safety glasses when shooting at the range. But if you are shooting loads for which you think the temperature may actually make your loads unsafe, you are shooting unsafe loads. To do so by mistake is a gross reloading error only made by beginners. To do so on purpose is just stupid. Why on earth would anyone intentionally and knowingly risk it? What is being gained? What could be lost?
Deliberately pushing loads that show any signs of pressure is stupid. On the other hand, maybe you could win a Darwin Award. Would that make it worth while?
So I'm a ####. But I really think you should back off a bit.
You should always wear safety glasses when shooting at the range. But if you are shooting loads for which you think the temperature may actually make your loads unsafe, you are shooting unsafe loads. To do so by mistake is a gross reloading error only made by beginners. To do so on purpose is just stupid. Why on earth would anyone intentionally and knowingly risk it? What is being gained? What could be lost?
Deliberately pushing loads that show any signs of pressure is stupid. On the other hand, maybe you could win a Darwin Award. Would that make it worth while?
So I'm a ####. But I really think you should back off a bit.
No jet, I didn't take anything as an insult or anything. As you said all theses catastrophic accidends were due to plugged barrels, ruptured heads and massive overcharges and wrong powder.
Rral... Slight flattening and extractors marks you
can hardly see are far from dangerous levels, they can fe found quite often in factory ammo. Loose primers, swollen heads, and smeared primers are too hot for my liking.
As to the head seperation, ive concluded that you could almost get away with putting a bullet in the throat, dump in your powder charge, then put the head in and close the bolt and still be fine. The head, and web will still seal the chamber from having the gasses escape. The case doesn't add strength to the chamber, it only seals it, the head and web are capable of doing that alone without the front half of the case. Sure there will be some leakage, but I expect an absolute minimum with nothing seeming un-ordinary. I wonder if anyones ever tried this?
Rral... Slight flattening and extractors marks you
can hardly see are far from dangerous levels, they can fe found quite often in factory ammo. Loose primers, swollen heads, and smeared primers are too hot for my liking.
As to the head seperation, ive concluded that you could almost get away with putting a bullet in the throat, dump in your powder charge, then put the head in and close the bolt and still be fine. The head, and web will still seal the chamber from having the gasses escape. The case doesn't add strength to the chamber, it only seals it, the head and web are capable of doing that alone without the front half of the case. Sure there will be some leakage, but I expect an absolute minimum with nothing seeming un-ordinary. I wonder if anyones ever tried this?
OK, you're a ####.
Seriously though, I think Mr. Fuzzy has already got all the advice from us safety nazis that he needs for now. He's old enough to make up his own mind, and absolutely free to do so. We might not like his decisions but it's his to make and not any of our business beyond the giving of friendly advice.
We need to respect other's personal freedoms even when it entails something you or I may not agree with. Time for us to stop sacrificing freedom to the safety gods.
There you go - you are on the wrong page. We were not talking about shooting over-pressure loads in the post that you referred to, we were discussing shooting old brass from a batch that had already had some failures. Completely different thing.
OK, you're a ####.
Seriously though, I think Mr. Fuzzy has already got all the advice from us safety nazis that he needs for now. He's old enough to make up his own mind, and absolutely free to do so. We might not like his decisions but it's his to make and not any of our business beyond the giving of friendly advice.
We need to respect other's personal freedoms even when it entails something you or I may not agree with. Time for us to stop sacrificing freedom to the safety gods.
I'm all in favor of freedom unless I will have to pay the tab for the freedom to make dangerous mistakes. I'm not curtailing his freedom; I'm just trying to keep from having to pay for other's preventable mistakes. Advice, even if it's a bit rude, does not make me a "safety nazi". It's advice.
The idea that everyone is entitled to his opinion is very nice, except for the fact that there are lots of opinions that are just wrong. Being wrong (and I'm including way more here than just reloading) often costs other people a lot of money, and once your behavior has effects on others, you should at least have to listen to some advice from those others. In some cases, you should be punished, and actually lose some freedom, if you ignore the rights of others.
So lets not even use that "personal freedom" garbage to justify taking chances that may well cost him, his family, and all of us.
Just play safe.
So who would draw the line on what's an acceptable risk and what should be punishable? Some people would like to eliminate guns altogether because they are dangerous and cost taxpayers everytime there's an accident or incident. Sone say automobile racing is too dangerous. You watch movies?? Who pays when a stuntman breaks a leg...workers comp and our medical system that taxpayers front. Better ban action movies or make them pay out of pocket. If I build a bike jump in my back yard who has the right to say how many feet long it can be, how high, and fast I can go?
I apreciate the advice and experience, I truly do. However I have found very little enjoyment with hobbies that don't have some risk... Shooting is my safest by far.
I apreciate the advice and experience, I truly do. However I have found very little enjoyment with hobbies that don't have some risk... Shooting is my safest by far.
Lots of risks should not be allowed to be taken because they can cost ME (and you) money. I agree, for instance, with laws requiring seatbelt use. I am the Deputy Chief of the local Fire/Rescue service, and I am an EMT with the local ambulance service. I know it is a good requirement, because I know how much NOT wearing seat belts have cost both of us, and friends and families of people who think they have the freedom to not wear them.
Obviously, someone who drives drunk should lose some personal freedom as a result. We already make lots of very reasonable restrictions on individual freedom, and we make some that are not reasonable, and we have not yet made some restrictions that we desperately need.
I'm not trying to define any of that for you. I was just trying to show that the "well it's just an opinion" or "I should be able to make my own mistakes", or "It's my risk it's OK", are not arguments about whether or not you should be pushing the pressure limits.
That's the original post. I stand by everything I have said as sound advice, in respect to both someone's personal freedoms to blow themselves up, and to that question.
Obviously, someone who drives drunk should lose some personal freedom as a result. We already make lots of very reasonable restrictions on individual freedom, and we make some that are not reasonable, and we have not yet made some restrictions that we desperately need.
I'm not trying to define any of that for you. I was just trying to show that the "well it's just an opinion" or "I should be able to make my own mistakes", or "It's my risk it's OK", are not arguments about whether or not you should be pushing the pressure limits.
That's the original post. I stand by everything I have said as sound advice, in respect to both someone's personal freedoms to blow themselves up, and to that question.
Horses**t. Personal freedom is exactly that - the right to make your own choices even if someone else doesn't like it. If you don't like how someone is doing something (like reloading for instance) you file a lawsuit or live with it.
The fact that you misinterpreted and rudely interjected yourself into the conversation was not your sole qualification to safety nazi stardom. The argument that disagreeable acts should be punished because they contribute to a social or economic "cost" is the same argument that the antis use against firearms ownsership. By that reasoning we should ban fast food and motorcycles because they may contribute to injury or disease that affects "family and all of us". Good luck with that.
I plan to use this "personal freedom garbage" whenever I want, because I can and there's absolutely nothing the safety nazis can do about it regardless of their sense of entitlement. Use it or lose it, as they say. In fact I'm reloading without safety glasses right now, just to spite you.
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Jet.. Lol. I rarely wear safety glasses for anything other than grinding, cutting with zip disks, using die grinders or overhead drilling. I am
trying to get in the habit while shooting though.
Rral... Jet beat me to it.. If I wanna risk blowing my face off it's completely
my choice, so long as I'm safely away from others. I agree 110% about drunk drivers but I dissagree 110% about seatbelt laws. We should be able to do anything we choose.. Blow fire, walk tightropes, climb mountains, hang glide, sky dive, cliff jump, speed walk, do our own brake jobs, hike alone, hunt with bows, fly small sea planes, walk in high heels, deep water dive, light our own bbq's, use sharp knives, cook
our own poultry, pet strange dogs, paint model airplanes, run as fast as our
legs can go, or sleep with women of questionable reputation so long as we do not put anyone else in harms way. It's an unfortunate thing that
all taxpayers must pay for it is there anyother way? Where does
this danger line get drawn, who draws it, what is dangerous and what's allowed? Everything has some risk, even getting out
of bed. The only way to do it fairly is to scrap the medical
system completely and make it a cash, cheque
or credit card system.
trying to get in the habit while shooting though.
Rral... Jet beat me to it.. If I wanna risk blowing my face off it's completely
my choice, so long as I'm safely away from others. I agree 110% about drunk drivers but I dissagree 110% about seatbelt laws. We should be able to do anything we choose.. Blow fire, walk tightropes, climb mountains, hang glide, sky dive, cliff jump, speed walk, do our own brake jobs, hike alone, hunt with bows, fly small sea planes, walk in high heels, deep water dive, light our own bbq's, use sharp knives, cook
our own poultry, pet strange dogs, paint model airplanes, run as fast as our
legs can go, or sleep with women of questionable reputation so long as we do not put anyone else in harms way. It's an unfortunate thing that
all taxpayers must pay for it is there anyother way? Where does
this danger line get drawn, who draws it, what is dangerous and what's allowed? Everything has some risk, even getting out
of bed. The only way to do it fairly is to scrap the medical
system completely and make it a cash, cheque
or credit card system.
Horses**t. Personal freedom is exactly that - the right to make your own choices even if someone else doesn't like it. in other words, rRegardless of how much you dislike the actions of others, you can file a lawsuit or take a hike.
We could ban fast food and motorcycles because they are dangerous, and they might contribute to injury or disease that affects family and "all of us". Ban alcohol, cigarettes, riding dirt bikes, hunting, mountain climbing, surfing, parasailing and waterskiing, anfd the internet. How about fatty foods and talking on cell phones? Who is qualified to decide, you? "Fraid not.
Contary to your advice, i can and will use the "personal freedom garbage" wherever and whenever I want, because I can and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it regardless of your sense of entitlement. That's why it's called "freedom". Legally speaking, you have no right whatsoever to expect anyone to listen to your advice, let alone pay heed to it.
In fact, I'm reloading without safety glasses right now, just to spite you.
Wow! Ever heard the expression "Cutting off your nose to spite your face"? Way to prove me an idiot! I will, of course, help you pay for your white cane when it comes necessary.
And feel free to use irrelevant or non-sequitur arguments any time you want, just because you can. It impresses everyone, I'm sure.
Personal freedom is exactly that - the right to make your own choices even if someone else doesn't like it
Actually that's a very immature view of personal freedom. You're right that personal freedom is what prevents me from stopping you from doing what I don't like. But your personal freedom ends where my nose begins. Interfering with MY freedom (not my opinions - my freedoms) is going to lose you your freedom. We call that "Law". Laws are all agreements we have made about restrictions on our own personal freedoms so that we don't have to worry about someone else exercising freedoms that hurt us in some way. Now some laws make sense to me; some laws don't make sense and need changing; and some laws that we need have yet to be made. But your personal freedom is NOT absolute. To argue it should be is just childish.
We are talking on a forum here, not passing draconian laws. What's with all the paranoia? Why would you ever think that a response on a forum about safety is some sort of attack on your personal freedom?
I assume you are not arguing there should be NO laws of any kind that interfere with your freedom to be stupid, or vicious, or to steal etc.? I also assume you have every intention of allowing me the freedom to talk. I'm talking. How does writing on a forum about keeping your loads within safe parameters do anything to interfere with your freedoms?
Please re-read my original post #44 for my thoughts about "playing with high pressures". I still agree with myself about that.
Heck, your a fireman, I could even go as far as to say I don't like the idea of you risking injury by going into a burning building, My tax money pays your hospital
stay.. Let the people inside burn, it's cheaper than hospital
stays, skin grafts, antibiotics, mental
and physical rehabilitation.... But
that's ludicris right? We all have the right to be safe, we also have the right to
choose how safe.
stay.. Let the people inside burn, it's cheaper than hospital
stays, skin grafts, antibiotics, mental
and physical rehabilitation.... But
that's ludicris right? We all have the right to be safe, we also have the right to
choose how safe.
I like your editing, cutting my sentence
off where you did, do you moonlight as a smut
mag editor? Expert at taking things out
of context. Let me ask a personal question. Have you ever checked yourself into the hospital or doctor for an injury that could have been prevented? Slip with a knife
due to stupidly cutting toward yourself, a pulled muscle that could have been prevented by stretching, a cold that could have been prevented by dressing
for the weather or eating healthier. Some could call those stupid accidents.... Did you write a cheque, pay cash or did I pick up the tab?
off where you did, do you moonlight as a smut
mag editor? Expert at taking things out
of context. Let me ask a personal question. Have you ever checked yourself into the hospital or doctor for an injury that could have been prevented? Slip with a knife
due to stupidly cutting toward yourself, a pulled muscle that could have been prevented by stretching, a cold that could have been prevented by dressing
for the weather or eating healthier. Some could call those stupid accidents.... Did you write a cheque, pay cash or did I pick up the tab?
rral; You aren't responsible for my saftey unless i agree to let you be, and thinking otherwise is borderline delusional. Chill!
I mostly agree with your point of view, except for the part of imposing upon the free will of others. Advice - yes by all means.
I mostly agree with your point of view, except for the part of imposing upon the free will of others. Advice - yes by all means.
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There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to reloading. I often see people quote "book" max etc and practically cry heresy if someone is beyond "book" max.THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD NOT RELOAD. Every gun/barrel/chamber is different. I work up all my loads, period !!! I have reached max at 3 grains below any book value and have also had some guns reach max loads as much as 8 grains over " book" max. If you don't know how to read signs of pressure perhaps reloading is not for you.If your getting a sticky bolt that is too high( around 75,000 or more) and you need to back off. If I am loading at higher pressures I keep a close eye on my cases and usually toss them early rather than later.Many of us have hunting loads that are safe in the fall but are simply too hot in the summer moths. In over 30 years of loading I have yet to have a case failure.
Canuck, I agree with you, but the title of this thread is "Who likes to play with high pressure", I take that to mean OP likes to ignore the signs, which in my opinion is just plain stupid thing to do. I wish him luck.
Most book max. loads come with generous margins of safety which I think is a good idea, all is fine under perfect conditions but throw in variables, like temperature that you mention or numerous things that could end up in a barrel during a hunt and a perfectly fine load could spell trouble.
And thanks for getting this thread back on track.
Most book max. loads come with generous margins of safety which I think is a good idea, all is fine under perfect conditions but throw in variables, like temperature that you mention or numerous things that could end up in a barrel during a hunt and a perfectly fine load could spell trouble.
And thanks for getting this thread back on track.
