Did the Germans have anything special in development as far as firearms at the end..?

The "krummlauf" was actualy intended to shoot russian infantry off german tanks. Beats someone opening the hatch and dropping a grenade inside to ruin your day.

Oh by the way Desert Fox, while the M60 did have german style you forgot to mention the American contribution, The op rod and bolt were taken from the LEWIS GUN;) AND on the 42 you didn't NEED an asbestos glove to change the barrel

The german feed system had a double lift on the belt for reliability , but some "expert" decided that a single lift would do on the M60
 
Not a firearm but they even had developed a anti-radar stealth aircraft
go229f.jpg
 
snowhunter said:
and all modern submarines is based on the latest German designs of WW2, just to mention few...
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The last "modern submarine" to be based loosely on German design ideas was the British Oberon, designed in the 1950's and mostly built in the 1960's.

Seagoing diesel-electric submarine designs in the West after Oberon were the Barbel Class (USN), then the Upholder/Victoria Class (UKRN/Canadian Navy) and then the Collins Class (Australia).

All of these are modern teardrop hull designs meant to optimize hydrodynamics, minimize friction and to operate primarily submerged at comparatively great depths.

German designs were essentially v-prow hulls intended to run on the surface as much as possible at higher speeds, then submerge when slower speeds were acceptable in order to achieve stealth. Fundamentally different design philosophies.

The only modern submarines that bear any resemblance to German WW2 hull shapes are smaller coastal vessels generally fielded by nations with small, low-cost navies.

As such, I would tend to disagree with your assertion.
 
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desporterizer said:
Desert Fox, you date yourself. The weapons of wolfenstein have become way more advanced since 1981.
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Yes, but the new versions creep me out... :eek:

I can only play for a couple minutes before getting the heebie jeebies. Damn Nazi Zombies.

I was playing Wolfenstein3D on my brothers 486 when I was 10... and I was playing the original Wolfenstein in 2D when I was 6.

Hardly an old timer... ;) 1983, Represent! :D

John Sukey said:
Oh by the way Desert Fox, while the M60 did have german style you forgot to mention the American contribution, The op rod and bolt were taken from the LEWIS GUN AND on the 42 you didn't NEED an asbestos glove to change the barrel
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I love the Lewis Gun... :redface: my heart melts at its awesomeness.

Just needed some quick fingers, a belt tab, and your barrel carrier handy to drop that fiery barrel out of the '42... Unlike the Silly, slow to change M60 barrel as you mentioned.

800px-M60_machine_gun_barrel_change_DF-ST-90-04667.jpg
 
Lee Enfield said:
The "late war US designs" you refer to were Balao tang, and Tench class "Guppy" "fleet class" submarines which (post war) had their superstructures removed and recontoured into a more streamlined shape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Underwater_Propulsion_Power_Program
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/guppy.htm
http://guppysubmarinetribute.homestead.com/Tribute.html

Some of the boats which had not yet been completed were apparently redesigned in the ship-yard before they were launched.

I don't believe any of this project was started before May 1945.
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The Gato-Balao class (upgrades of W2 Gato fleet submarines) were used as radar pickets in the Atlantic into the 1960's. Two (Grilse and Rainbow) were even commissioned by Canada (loaned from the USN) and operated out of Esquimalt in the 1960's and 70's while our Oberons were operating out of Halifax.

EDIT: RAINBOW was actually a Tench Class submarine (also a WW2 US boat) and Grilse was a Gato-Balao. The Tench was an improvement over the Gato boats.

A little known fact is that because of the differences in instrumentation and labelling on the American-built fleet submarines and the British-built Oberons, the Command, Charge and Control of the submarines differed greatly between East and West in those years. On the west coast a conning tower was a "sail" while in Halifax it was a "fin". One of a great many examples of weirdness in the Canadian Navy at the time.

After RAINBOW was de-comissioned in the 1970's, we didn't operate submarines out of the west coast again until VICTORIA's operational command was transferred to MARPAC in 2005.
 
Lee Enfield said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_class_submarine

Bigger than a German TypeIX, the Gato's were early shallow water boats, restricted to diving @300', they were obsolete from that perspective before the war started for the US, as German boats were regularily exceeding 700-900' in combat emergencies.
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Source? No WW2 German U-boat had a deep dive depth of 700-900 feet. The test depth for a Type IX u-boat at the end of the war was 750 feet, but the test depth is NOT the operating depth. The test depth includes the factor of safety, after which hull failure/crush is virtually assured on a NEW submarine. As WW2 boats aged (modern cathodic protection didn't exist and neither did modern high-tensile, High modulous of elasticity steels), their dive depth bacame more and more restricted until the hull was worn out. To minimize this, deep dives were a rarity. Forget what you've seen in Hollywood moview like U-571 - pure tripe.

The Gato class was an excellent submarine built for long depolyments. It could circumnavigate on one load of fuel and was considered most excellent by the US, the envy of her allies when they were still current. it was NOT a littoral submarine, it was blue-water.

The typical operating depth for Submarines in WW2 was about 200 feet. Very shallow by today's standards. Modern normal operating depths past 600 feet were not realized by hunter/killer submarines until the development of specialized submarine hull steels like the HY80-series steels used by the USN during the cold war, initially for use on Nuclear submarines.
 
All these weapons related WW2 German inventions, did not do the Germans any good, like winning the war. However, the winners took all these war time German scientist and their inventions and incoporated them into their armed forces etc, not making this planet any safer than it was before WW2, just shifting the global powers around a bit.

Another outstanding WW2 German medical invention worth mentioning, was the use of inserted metal rods into badly fractured bones, a medical procedure which are used world wide today as well.

The counter rotating propellars of the Russian TU-95, "Bear" bomber and current maritime patrol aircraft was designed by captured German "Junkers Werke" scientists.

The WW2 German science is still very much part of our every day life, like space travel, and orbiting satelites, all made possible by German WW2 rocket science.
 
They came up with the best gpmg of all time. Still in service after 70 years as the MG3 and still the best gpmg in my opinion.
 
Colin said:
Most of the German army was still horse drawn, half of their PZ divisions in 1940 were made up of Pz1 and II. However they had learned the lessons of Liddel and Hart and employed combined arms far more effectivly than the Allies until 1944. The BEF was the most mechanized force at the begining of the war.
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Yeah, isn't that what I was saying?
 
Desert_Fox said:
I love the Lewis Gun... :redface: my heart melts at its awesomeness.

Just needed some quick fingers, a belt tab, and your barrel carrier handy to drop that fiery barrel out of the '42... Unlike the Silly, slow to change M60 barrel as you mentioned.
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Too bad the thing (and its magazine) was prone to dirtied jamming...:redface:
 
Norinco invented the gun powder, "Fire Medicine" 1518 years ago, and was mentioned in the year 492.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder#China
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gato_class_submarine

Bigger than a German TypeIX, the Gato's were early shallow water boats, restricted to diving @300', they were obsolete from that perspective before the war started for the US, as German boats were regularily exceeding 700-900' in combat emergencies.
Claven2 said:
Source? No WW2 German U-boat had a deep dive depth of 700-900 feet. The test depth for a Type IX u-boat at the end of the war was 750 feet, but the test depth is NOT the operating depth. The test depth includes the factor of safety, after which hull failure/crush is virtually assured on a NEW submarine. As WW2 boats aged (modern cathodic protection didn't exist and neither did modern high-tensile, High modulous of elasticity steels), their dive depth bacame more and more restricted until the hull was worn out. To minimize this, deep dives were a rarity. Forget what you've seen in Hollywood moview like U-571 - pure tripe.

The Gato class was an excellent submarine built for long depolyments. It could circumnavigate on one load of fuel and was considered most excellent by the US, the envy of her allies when they were still current. it was NOT a littoral submarine, it was blue-water.

The typical operating depth for Submarines in WW2 was about 200 feet. Very shallow by today's standards. Modern normal operating depths past 600 feet were not realized by hunter/killer submarines until the development of specialized submarine hull steels like the HY80-series steels used by the USN during the cold war, initially for use on Nuclear submarines.
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Hey C2 I think you missed the highlighted part of my comment; "combat emergencies".

VIIA - 722' (produced 1935-37)
VIIB - 722'
VIIC - 722' (@568 produced 1940-45)
VIIC/41 - 820' (@90 produced @42-45)

.fact-index.com/t/ty/type_vii_u_boat.html
.wordiq.com/definition/Type_VII_U-boat
.uboataces.com/uboat-type-vii.shtml
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_VII_submarine


You are correct that WW2 submarines operated at a much shallower depth than modern subs. The reason for that was that the design purpose of ALL submarines pre-@1955 was to attack surface shipping while avoiding detection by enemy surface warships.

Yes, the US Fleet type subs (and most Japanese) were designed to similar purposes as the German WWI U-Cruizers, extreme long range patrol boats, spending most of their time on the surface. They were designed for large crews, and crew comfort, whereas most of the WW2 European designs were combat weapons where the crews "hot-bunked" with the next watch.

They were excellent long range patrol boats, crippled for post-war use by their inferior dive depth capabilities.
 
Oh, I wouldn't say the fleet boats were crippled. Most Gatos still around by 1950 underwent Gato-Baleo upgrades and later spent a good many years as either Regulus I launch platforms for places like the Med (the first SSG submarines, the cruise-missile diesel version of a modern boomer) or as radar picket boats in the North Atlantic to intercept Russian bombers and relay the data to NORAD.

I would, however, caution you that Wikipedia is a pretty dubious source. Test depth for WW2 submarines was 1.5X deep dive depth.

The formula for pressure vs. depth in fluid is Pb = Pt + (rho)gh (sorry I don't have greek characters installed on my mac) where h is the difference in depth. Deep Dive for a Type IX was 500 feet (750 feet minus 1.5). rho is the density of seawater (1027 kg/m3), g is 9.81m/s^2 and h=76.2m or 250feet.

The 250 foot difference in pressure is 767705 Kg/ms^2 or 768KPa or 112 psi. Although that doesn't perhaps seem like a lot, it is when combined with the comparatively primitive steels in u-boat hulls, the degree of machinery vibration and the risk of shock loading to the submarine's hull and systems under attack. 112psi is 7.6 atmospheres increase, so depending upon the depth at the start of a dive, it could be up to a 5 or 6 fold increase over typical operating pressures at 200 feet.

Taking a U-boat to 750 feet would have virtually guaranteed a kill for the allies if a depth charge went off within anything closer to maybe 150 feet of the boat. Not too many CO's would have risked those odds.
 
if we taliking about hunting firearms germans firearms are much better quallity than usa,look at sauer krieghoff merkel heym, life is to short to hunt with ugly gun
 
Life is too short to be working and saving for a pretty German gun when you could be out hunting with a Stevens 200, a Handi-Rifle, or an old Lee-Enfield sporter.
 
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