Remington trigger woes.
- Thread starter zebra26
- Start date
The trigger adjustment was done by one of the best gun smiths in the country and was adjusted properly. He looked after Remington warranty work for many years.
Every firearm in the house is maintained exactly the way it should be and there was no sign of any build up in the trigger group. I have never in over 30 years of shooting had a failure of any kind due to lack of maintainance and having worked in the mechanical trades for over 20 years I understand proper maintenance.
I watched the doc again last night and anyone that doesn't believe there is a problem with these triggers is just not dealing well with the real world.
Why would Remington be working so hard to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
Why would the designer of the trigger admit there was problem and offer a solution?
Why wouldn't Remington be filing against these people, consumer report 1960s and CNBC for attacking thier good name?
Why was a recall even considered if there was no problem?
There is an issue with this trigger even if you don't want to see it.
I made an honest post to perhaps save someone from a problem. I knew someone would try and he a hero and insult me for improper maintainance etc. etc.
The facts have been posted for you-do with the info as you please.
- Location
- North-Central Quebec
That is what I`ve decided to do. Placed my order with WGP earlier this week. And will do the same for my Rem 600 because the Timney allows you to work the bolt and empty the blind magazine with the safety on, something the original does not.
"This would never happen if your gun is pointed in a safe direction"
If you are hunting in the bush there is a thousand times your gun is not pointed at the ground and when you wouldn't be very comfortable with a discharge of your rifle.
What if the buck of your dreams steps out and you push the safety and the gun goes off? Nobody gets hurt so no harm done?
And as far as never adjusting the factory settings; The trigger on this rifle was 10 lbs plus from the factory. How can you teach a kid proper shooting with a gun like this? Remington obviously set these triggers to try to cover up a problem in a CHEAP way.
Sooo either the trigger is too stiff, should never be adjusted and needs to be replaced OR the trigger is dangerous and needs to be replaced.
If you are hunting in the bush there is a thousand times your gun is not pointed at the ground and when you wouldn't be very comfortable with a discharge of your rifle.
What if the buck of your dreams steps out and you push the safety and the gun goes off? Nobody gets hurt so no harm done?
And as far as never adjusting the factory settings; The trigger on this rifle was 10 lbs plus from the factory. How can you teach a kid proper shooting with a gun like this? Remington obviously set these triggers to try to cover up a problem in a CHEAP way.
Sooo either the trigger is too stiff, should never be adjusted and needs to be replaced OR the trigger is dangerous and needs to be replaced.
The trigger adjustment was done by one of the best gun smiths in the country and was adjusted properly. He looked after Remington warranty work for many years.
Every firearm in the house is maintained exactly the way it should be and there was no sign of any build up in the trigger group. I have never in over 30 years of shooting had a failure of any kind due to lack of maintainance and having worked in the mechanical trades for over 20 years I understand proper maintenance.
I watched the doc again last night and anyone that doesn't believe there is a problem with these triggers is just not dealing well with the real world.
Why would Remington be working so hard to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?
Why would the designer of the trigger admit there was problem and offer a solution?
Why wouldn't Remington be filing against these people, consumer report 1960s and CNBC for attacking thier good name?
Why was a recall even considered if there was no problem?
There is an issue with this trigger even if you don't want to see it.
I made an honest post to perhaps save someone from a problem. I knew someone would try and he a hero and insult me for improper maintainance etc. etc.
The facts have been posted for you-do with the info as you please.
No one is trying to be a hero or insult you. Don't be offended.
Being a Remington warranty gunsmith requires no special training. You don't even have to be a gunsmith, you simply have to buy and sell a large quantity of product and have an agreement with Remington. (At least that is the way it was 30 years ago). At one time I was doing warranty work for CIL, Winchester, Remington, Savage. No special training required at the time. It was through the store I worked at... because of the sales. I will accept your statement that your gunsmith was one of the best gun smiths in the country... but if your trigger was adjusted after it left the factory and if your trigger was faulty why would you not contact Remington? Why would you accept that?
Remington did a recall because they recognized they had a problem with some triggers. That was a responsible thing to do. Remington also discontinued the safety feature on locking the bolt handle down. They do not produce that feature any longer. So the a.d.'s that were caused by a finger on the trigger when the safety was disengaged no longer occur.
There may have been an issue with some triggers and Remington recalled and addressed all that... Remington have never refused to service or help anyone with a problem... this suit is plain and simple all about how much money can the lawyer get from Remington's insurance company and how much money can the broadcaster make keeping this story 'alive'.
Exactly!!!
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
My 7mm RM ADL is being shipped to me today Dennis. When I send it to you for the cut/crown can you also adjust my WALKER TRIGGER down to a nice crisp 3 pounds?
- Location
- North-Central Quebec
My point exactly, in my wife's case it was a moose and a thumb injury. I ordered the Timney trigger because I don`t think this is OK in a brand new gun and although I can`t repeat that failure, I don`t trust it not to happen again. And neither does she.
So in light of this, how would you suggest we keep these triggers clean and lubed for proper/safe function?
I'm thinking a good spray with brake cleaner, then blown out with compressed air (repeat if needed) and light lube with light oil. Thoughts?
.
Never under rate the power of the press....
Of particular interest to me because I've been shooting Remington rifles since 1961. Models 600, 660,721, 700 and never had one single problem.
USA TODAY - OCTOBER 29, 2010
Safety prompts police to quit using Remington 700 rifles
By Scott Cohn, Senior Correspondent, CNBC
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2010-10-29-remington-folo-portland_N.htm
The police department in Portland, Maine, has become the latest law
enforcement agency to stop using a popular sniper rifle over concerns the
gun can go off without the trigger being pulled.
The rifle, the Remington 700, is the subject of a CNBC documentary,
"Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation," which revealed thousands of
customer complaints, including from Portland police in 2009.
Police Chief James Craig told the Portland Press Herald he was unaware how
many other complaints there were until he viewed the CNBC report. "I don't
want to run the risk of having an accidental discharge like this where it
puts an officer's or community member's life in danger," Chief Craig told
the newspaper. He later confirmed to CNBC that the department's five
Remington 700s have been taken out of service.
SEE THE PROGRAM: It airs again Sunday Oct. 31 at 9 p.m. ET on CNBC.
The CNBC program included video taken by Portland snipers and obtained by
the network showing a rifle going off repeatedly when an officer touched the
bolt. Chief Craig told the newspaper that the department had contacted
Remington about the problem but was told the weapons were no longer under
warranty.
Remington insists the popular rifle is safe, and in a statement for the CNBC
program the company said that neither its own experts nor experts hired by
plaintiffs' lawyers "has ever been able to duplicate such an event on rifles
that had been properly maintained or have not been altered after sale."
But Chief Craig told the newspaper the department's rifles were properly
maintained and had not been altered or adjusted. He did say that of the
department's five rifles, only the one shown in the video had malfunctioned.
The Portland department is not the first agency to stop using the rifles.
The police department in Kissimmee, FL, sold its 700s after one
inadvertently went off during a drug raid in 2005, according to a department
spokeswoman. And the national police force in New Zealand also stopped using
the rifles due to safety concerns, officials told CNBC.
Versions of the rifle are also used by the U.S. military, and documents
obtained by CNBC under the Freedom of Information Act show that inadvertent
discharges of rifles at the Marine sniper training school at Camp Lejeune,
NC, became such a concern, they led to meetings between Marine officials and
Remington representatives in 2003, and eventually to changes in Marine Corps
procedures for handling the rifles.
The Army recently awarded Remington a new contract for as many as 3,600 new
sniper rifles, worth up to $28 million. "For nearly fifty years, the
Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of
hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement
personnel," Remington said in its earlier statement.
Of particular interest to me because I've been shooting Remington rifles since 1961. Models 600, 660,721, 700 and never had one single problem.
USA TODAY - OCTOBER 29, 2010
Safety prompts police to quit using Remington 700 rifles
By Scott Cohn, Senior Correspondent, CNBC
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2010-10-29-remington-folo-portland_N.htm
The police department in Portland, Maine, has become the latest law
enforcement agency to stop using a popular sniper rifle over concerns the
gun can go off without the trigger being pulled.
The rifle, the Remington 700, is the subject of a CNBC documentary,
"Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation," which revealed thousands of
customer complaints, including from Portland police in 2009.
Police Chief James Craig told the Portland Press Herald he was unaware how
many other complaints there were until he viewed the CNBC report. "I don't
want to run the risk of having an accidental discharge like this where it
puts an officer's or community member's life in danger," Chief Craig told
the newspaper. He later confirmed to CNBC that the department's five
Remington 700s have been taken out of service.
SEE THE PROGRAM: It airs again Sunday Oct. 31 at 9 p.m. ET on CNBC.
The CNBC program included video taken by Portland snipers and obtained by
the network showing a rifle going off repeatedly when an officer touched the
bolt. Chief Craig told the newspaper that the department had contacted
Remington about the problem but was told the weapons were no longer under
warranty.
Remington insists the popular rifle is safe, and in a statement for the CNBC
program the company said that neither its own experts nor experts hired by
plaintiffs' lawyers "has ever been able to duplicate such an event on rifles
that had been properly maintained or have not been altered after sale."
But Chief Craig told the newspaper the department's rifles were properly
maintained and had not been altered or adjusted. He did say that of the
department's five rifles, only the one shown in the video had malfunctioned.
The Portland department is not the first agency to stop using the rifles.
The police department in Kissimmee, FL, sold its 700s after one
inadvertently went off during a drug raid in 2005, according to a department
spokeswoman. And the national police force in New Zealand also stopped using
the rifles due to safety concerns, officials told CNBC.
Versions of the rifle are also used by the U.S. military, and documents
obtained by CNBC under the Freedom of Information Act show that inadvertent
discharges of rifles at the Marine sniper training school at Camp Lejeune,
NC, became such a concern, they led to meetings between Marine officials and
Remington representatives in 2003, and eventually to changes in Marine Corps
procedures for handling the rifles.
The Army recently awarded Remington a new contract for as many as 3,600 new
sniper rifles, worth up to $28 million. "For nearly fifty years, the
Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of
hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement
personnel," Remington said in its earlier statement.
I believe many BR shooters clean their 2 ounce triggers simply with lighter fluid and a bit of compressed air. I would not oil them after cleaning. Lighter fluid is a petroleum product and will leave a bit of light lubricant behind. Brake cleaner, then blown out with compressed air would work well I am sure.
Triggers that have been heavily oiled and left are the most likely to have problems down the road.
I think it happens more often than we might think, I've heard similar stories over the years, but never thought to ask what model of rifle was involved. It's likely safe to assume they were Remingtons! As I mentioned in another thread, I've personally handled a couple of 700's that exhibited similar problems.
In one case, the rifle was in 99% condition, and still had glue over the adjustment screws. It would go "click" almost every time the bolt was closed, but it was due to varnish from poor quality oil. (3-in-1?
) The dinky springs used were simply too weak to overcome the sticky varnish. I've also seen problems with sand and spruce needles that had worked their way into the mechanism, and required a total tear down to clean them out.Most gunsmiths will tell you, Remington keeps them in business! However, some of the Parker-Hale and Midland rifles are even worse. They will "go Remington" just from the rear trigger guard screw working loose. If you want a safe trigger, buy a Ruger M77MkII. They have no screws for amateurs to tinker with, and serve just fine for hunting. The Winchester M70 was a good one, too, but it's also easy for "Bubba" to mess up its adjustment.
Yes, a rifle should never be pointed at anything we don't intend to destroy. Obviously! But neither should we accept rifles that go "bang" when they're not supposed to! The M700ADL with the blind mag could be a real problem, if it had the trigger glitch. You have to cycle the rounds through the chamber, closing the bolt on each one, to empty the mag. And the safety on the older 700's locks the bolt, so you must unload with the safety off.
I don't own a 700, and never will. I've had to repair enough of them, and seen enough crappy workmanship, that I just have no interest in them. Later Winchester M70's aren't much better, they have lots of little gremlins too. Savage 110 types aren't bad, and I've never had to work on a Ruger. Same with Browning A-Bolts.
Of course, there are always guys that will buy anything with "Remington'" emblazoned on it.
I have been actively gunsmithing for 42 years. The majority of work I do on 700's is custom work, an option the owner chooses to have done; glass bedding, triggers worked to crisp, safe 2 pounds plus, installing new barrels, accurizing actions, & mounting scopes... an I do a lot of it... because the 700 is an extremely popular rifle for many good reasons.
I don't think 'repairing' Remington firearms because they actually require it keeps many gunsmiths in business.
As far as the bolt being locked down by the safety - all those old models were recalled by Remington to have the safety changed. It was well advertised. It is not Remington's fault some owners have not complied.
Harrier .45
Regular
- Location
- Ontario, north of Toronto
Remington response to CNBC "Documentary"
Remington has provided the following responses to the CNBC Documentary on the Model 700 rifle.
To: Remington Authorized Repair Centers
Subject: CNBC “Documentary”
CNBC “Documentary”
CNBC plans to air a program regarding Remington Arms, and specifically the Model 700 rifle, later this month.
We attempted to cooperate with CNBC as they prepared a “documentary” about the Model 700 rifle.
We provided the network with a great deal of factual information and background materials, including the Model 700’s decades long record of safety and reliability.
It became apparent, however, that CNBC was more interested in presenting a sensationalized, agenda-driven story as opposed to a balanced, fact-based program.
In spite of our attempts to present the facts, we strongly suspect the program will rely upon the unsubstantiated allegations of trial lawyers.
We declined to provide CNBC an on-camera interview, which we believed likely, would have been heavily edited, taken out of context and used solely to lend credibility to an unfair storyline.
We fully intend to respond accordingly once the program airs, but rest assured that Remington is, and will remain, one of the strongest and most iconic brands in America.
Our Company has always been, and will remain, focused on providing the highest quality, safest and most reliable products to our loyal customer base comprised of hunters, shooters, law enforcement and military personnel in America and around the world.
No media story riddled with unsubstantiated allegations should diminish the pride we all take in our company and its products.
We appreciate the support we have already received from our vendors, customers and industry partners and look forward to setting the record straight with facts once the program airs.
We’ve attached the official statement that we provided to CNBC in lieu of their desired on-camera interview.
Remington Arms
Official Statement for CNBC Program Regarding the Model 700
Submitted September 7, 2010
“For nearly fifty years, the Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement personnel.
Despite emotional reporting of baseless and unproven allegations and plaintiff lawyer assertions, several undisputed facts remain:
• The Model 700 is the most popular, reliable, accurate and trusted bolt-action rifle in the world, with over five million rifles produced and billions of rounds fired over nearly five decades.
• The Model 700 is the firearm of choice for elite shooters from America’s military and law enforcement communities, and has been the platform for the United States Marine Corps and the U.S. Army precision sniper weapon systems for over two decades, both of which specifically require the “Walker” trigger mechanism.
• The Model 700, including its trigger mechanism, has been free of any defect since it was first produced and, despite any careless reporting to the contrary, the gun’s use by millions of Americans has proven it to be a safe, trusted and reliable rifle.
• Both Remington and experts hired by plaintiff attorneys have conducted testing on guns returned from the field which were alleged to have fired without a trigger pull, and neither has ever been able to duplicate such an event on guns which had been properly maintained and which had not been altered after sale.
• Remington takes safety very seriously. We support hunter safety and other educational programs nationwide, and include with every Remington firearm, the “Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety,” which urgently remind every gun owner that if proper firearms safety rules are followed, no accidental injuries would ever occur.
The men and women who build, own and shoot the Remington Model 700 take great pride in a product that, over the last half century, has set the bar for safety, reliability and performance.”
If we can be of service to you, please feel free to call us at 1-800-310-8483, Monday-Friday, 8am-5pm EST. Please check out our website at http://www.remington.com.
Thank you,
Ken Nickerson
Field Service Support Manager
Phone: 336-548-8783
Fax: 336-548-7783
ken.nickerson@remington.com
Also, view the Remington official response at this site: http://www.remington700.tv/#/home
Remington has provided the following responses to the CNBC Documentary on the Model 700 rifle.
To: Remington Authorized Repair Centers
Subject: CNBC “Documentary”
CNBC “Documentary”
CNBC plans to air a program regarding Remington Arms, and specifically the Model 700 rifle, later this month.
We attempted to cooperate with CNBC as they prepared a “documentary” about the Model 700 rifle.
We provided the network with a great deal of factual information and background materials, including the Model 700’s decades long record of safety and reliability.
It became apparent, however, that CNBC was more interested in presenting a sensationalized, agenda-driven story as opposed to a balanced, fact-based program.
In spite of our attempts to present the facts, we strongly suspect the program will rely upon the unsubstantiated allegations of trial lawyers.
We declined to provide CNBC an on-camera interview, which we believed likely, would have been heavily edited, taken out of context and used solely to lend credibility to an unfair storyline.
We fully intend to respond accordingly once the program airs, but rest assured that Remington is, and will remain, one of the strongest and most iconic brands in America.
Our Company has always been, and will remain, focused on providing the highest quality, safest and most reliable products to our loyal customer base comprised of hunters, shooters, law enforcement and military personnel in America and around the world.
No media story riddled with unsubstantiated allegations should diminish the pride we all take in our company and its products.
We appreciate the support we have already received from our vendors, customers and industry partners and look forward to setting the record straight with facts once the program airs.
We’ve attached the official statement that we provided to CNBC in lieu of their desired on-camera interview.
Remington Arms
Official Statement for CNBC Program Regarding the Model 700
Submitted September 7, 2010
“For nearly fifty years, the Remington Model 700 rifle has been the preferred choice for millions of hunters, shooting sports enthusiasts and military and law enforcement personnel.
Despite emotional reporting of baseless and unproven allegations and plaintiff lawyer assertions, several undisputed facts remain:
• The Model 700 is the most popular, reliable, accurate and trusted bolt-action rifle in the world, with over five million rifles produced and billions of rounds fired over nearly five decades.
• The Model 700 is the firearm of choice for elite shooters from America’s military and law enforcement communities, and has been the platform for the United States Marine Corps and the U.S. Army precision sniper weapon systems for over two decades, both of which specifically require the “Walker” trigger mechanism.
• The Model 700, including its trigger mechanism, has been free of any defect since it was first produced and, despite any careless reporting to the contrary, the gun’s use by millions of Americans has proven it to be a safe, trusted and reliable rifle.
• Both Remington and experts hired by plaintiff attorneys have conducted testing on guns returned from the field which were alleged to have fired without a trigger pull, and neither has ever been able to duplicate such an event on guns which had been properly maintained and which had not been altered after sale.
• Remington takes safety very seriously. We support hunter safety and other educational programs nationwide, and include with every Remington firearm, the “Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety,” which urgently remind every gun owner that if proper firearms safety rules are followed, no accidental injuries would ever occur.
The men and women who build, own and shoot the Remington Model 700 take great pride in a product that, over the last half century, has set the bar for safety, reliability and performance.”
If we can be of service to you, please feel free to call us at 1-800-310-8483, Monday-Friday, 8am-5pm EST. Please check out our website at http://www.remington.com.
Thank you,
Ken Nickerson
Field Service Support Manager
Phone: 336-548-8783
Fax: 336-548-7783
ken.nickerson@remington.com
Also, view the Remington official response at this site: http://www.remington700.tv/#/home
You obviously don't own any Remingtons, because this statement is very much in error!! You do NOT have to chamber any round to get it out of the blind magazine of a M700ADL. You simply move the bolt forward, pushing the round until it is free of the magazine. [about 2/3 closed] and then withdraw the bolt and tip the rifle to the right. The unfired round will fall out into your hand without ever closing the bolt on it, rendering an AD impossible. Sheesh! uneducated opinions that others take as gospel. Learn the facts before making erroneous statements! FWIW, I own Remingtons, Winchesters, Rugers, Parker-Hales, Mausers, Howas, Mossbergs, etc, etc. I try to get to know each design and it's idiosyncrasies before using it. Eagleye.
Chinbullco
Regular
- Location
- NW Alberta
M700 triggers
Forty years of shooting, thousands of rounds fired, in temps from 40C to -40C, 37 Remington rifles in 700, 78, 600 and 40X, many that are on their second and third barrel and never a problem. Bubba down the road buys one and its nothing but trouble. All American made custom receivers use the same sear / firing pin arrangement as the 700 for its quick, repeatable lock time. If anything is out of the ordinary with trigger / safety get it fixed by a competent smith. Then pass on the cause of that failure in this forum. This is starting to sound like the HUGE TOYOTA scandal that the big US media stirred up. Believe 50% of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
Forty years of shooting, thousands of rounds fired, in temps from 40C to -40C, 37 Remington rifles in 700, 78, 600 and 40X, many that are on their second and third barrel and never a problem. Bubba down the road buys one and its nothing but trouble. All American made custom receivers use the same sear / firing pin arrangement as the 700 for its quick, repeatable lock time. If anything is out of the ordinary with trigger / safety get it fixed by a competent smith. Then pass on the cause of that failure in this forum. This is starting to sound like the HUGE TOYOTA scandal that the big US media stirred up. Believe 50% of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
I truly believe that the police "inadvertant firings" were due to operator error or an armorer getting cute with the trigger adjustments. It bothers me that one of the police departments stated they SOLD their "defective" rifles! Liability? For sure.
I've never even heard of these so called Rem 700 problems and I've shot 700's since 1983. "Much ado about nothing" like a famous bard wrote.
I've never even heard of these so called Rem 700 problems and I've shot 700's since 1983. "Much ado about nothing" like a famous bard wrote.
- Location
- big sky country
I have a rem 700 that can fire when you take the safety off and your finger is no where near the trigger.
It happened to me once with a live round at the range. It went harmlessly downrange. I have been able to recreate a few times at home with the empty gun. Its not every time though, maybe 1 in 100.
It happened to me once with a live round at the range. It went harmlessly downrange. I have been able to recreate a few times at home with the empty gun. Its not every time though, maybe 1 in 100.
