Cutting M4 Feedramps good idea?

BigGameHunter

BigGameHunter

Regular
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
I have a Nork M4 and it likes FMJ but doesn't like JHP. I noticed that the rounds hit where the feed ramps are not done all the way through and was wondering if taking a dremel and making M4 feed ramps on it would help functionality. I know people say you will take the anodizing off weaken it, etc but the tips of the FMJ hit that spot anyways and the anodizing if worn from it anyways thus exposing the bare forged aluminum. If not I will just shoot FMJ but if the gun club says no FMJ I may consider doing this. Any one else get this done recommend it or don't recommend it? Thanks.
 
I'd first try different mags. From all I've read, the Norc mags are junk. Try some PMAGS (or EMAGS).

If the problem still persists, then I see no issues with doing what you want to do as long as the work done is good. It's going to be purely cosmetic.

I suggest a round file that's been cut (broken) very short so that you can have more control in how much material is removed; some needle nose pliers to work the file. Once you have the ramps shaped, I'd wrap the same round file in various grits of sandpaper to get as smooth as possible. (Dremmel it if you feel brave... I'd definitely want a variable speed Dremmel for this job)

The anodizing & strength is a non-issue.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
.

X2 on the mags.

However, I have heard from a reliable source that if you don't have M4 feed ramps your #### will fall clean off

GC
 
Try different mags is certainly the first thing I'd try. If the mags are bad, even antitilt followers may fix it.

Does a nork m4 have an m4 extension, and a rifle upper? Or a rifle extension and a rifle upper.

If you are in teh Calgary area, bring it to the next shoot, and we can try a bucket of different mags if you like.
feedramps2.jpg
 
G37 said:
I'd first try different mags. From all I've read, the Norc mags are junk. Try some PMAGS (or EMAGS).

If the problem still persists, then I see no issues with doing what you want to do as long as the work done is good. It's going to be purely cosmetic.

I suggest a round file that's been cut (broken) very short so that you can have more control in how much material is removed; some needle nose pliers to work the file. Once you have the ramps shaped, I'd wrap the same round file in various grits of sandpaper to get as smooth as possible. (Dremmel it if you feel brave... I'd definitely want a variable speed Dremmel for this job)

The anodizing & strength is a non-issue.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I think it would be functional as when you look close you see the feed ramp and then where the barrel and feedramps are locked into the reciever there is a 1mm or slightly higher 90 degree wall of the receiver face so it is not technically a smooth ramp there is that little "wall" that the ammo much get over which is why the FMJ ride over it and the JHP sometimes hit that wall and "bottom" out and ruin the round.

I went through a box and Winchester told me that it was not a good idea to use JHP in a M4 without the feedramps. The reason is JHP are not seated as hard as FMJ or cannalured or whatever it is and JHP have soft tips that don't allow it to defeat this small obstacle and cause malfunctions. Needless to say they sent me coupons for new ammo. The one magazine that I bought even though it was brand new I think might be a problem however because on top of that it is almost like the second to last round gets stuck. A piece of scotchbrite and elbow greese smoothed it out and it functions better now. I usually chalk this kind of stuff up to having the absolute worst luck with anything I buy new. However I hear on hear with a lot of people that they have nothing but problems with JHP and flawless with FMJ and then there are the people who like to brag that they have shot 3 million rounds and the gun never had a hiccup and put every round in the same hole so I really don't know. I just wish I could have more trigger time with this gun instead of just always practice dryfire and field stripping which I am now what I would consider an expert at. lol. but a machinist I am not however my dad is and he would be doing the work if I decide.

I just really don't know if it is the gun or not cause it seems like there is such a variance in answers with whether JHP is ok in non M4 feedramps or not. I could live happy with just having a gun that shoots FMJ as I have a mini 14 that isn't picky and will shoot all the JHP I wasted money on for the M4 but I just don't get how the same guns are made with that much difference that some do and some don't with everything.
 
Well, I can tell you that I have a barrel without the M4 ramps and from the EMAGS the rounds are feeding well above where the M4 ramps would be.

M4 Ramps sound like a tolerance-aid thing... if a mag is out of spec or not fitting properly, then M4 ramps help keep things running.

I could take a pic and post :)
 
G37 said:
Well, I can tell you that I have a barrel without the M4 ramps and from the EMAGS the rounds are feeding well above where the M4 ramps would be.

M4 Ramps sound like a tolerance-aid thing... if a mag is out of spec or not fitting properly, then M4 ramps help keep things running.

I could take a pic and post :)
Click to expand...

Why do you use Emags in a AR15?
 
BigGameHunter said:
I think it would be functional as when you look close you see the feed ramp and then where the barrel and feedramps are locked into the reciever there is a 1mm or slightly higher 90 degree wall of the receiver face so it is not technically a smooth ramp there is that little "wall" that the ammo much get over which is why the FMJ ride over it and the JHP sometimes hit that wall and "bottom" out and ruin the round.

I went through a box and Winchester told me that it was not a good idea to use JHP in a M4 without the feedramps. The reason is JHP are not seated as hard as FMJ or cannalured or whatever it is and JHP have soft tips that don't allow it to defeat this small obstacle and cause malfunctions. Needless to say they sent me coupons for new ammo. The one magazine that I bought even though it was brand new I think might be a problem however because on top of that it is almost like the second to last round gets stuck. A piece of scotchbrite and elbow greese smoothed it out and it functions better now. I usually chalk this kind of stuff up to having the absolute worst luck with anything I buy new. However I hear on hear with a lot of people that they have nothing but problems with JHP and flawless with FMJ and then there are the people who like to brag that they have shot 3 million rounds and the gun never had a hiccup and put every round in the same hole so I really don't know. I just wish I could have more trigger time with this gun instead of just always practice dryfire and field stripping which I am now what I would consider an expert at. lol. but a machinist I am not however my dad is and he would be doing the work if I decide.

I just really don't know if it is the gun or not cause it seems like there is such a variance in answers with whether JHP is ok in non M4 feedramps or not. I could live happy with just having a gun that shoots FMJ as I have a mini 14 that isn't picky and will shoot all the JHP I wasted money on for the M4 but I just don't get how the same guns are made with that much difference that some do and some don't with everything.
Click to expand...

Look at the pictures posted above, which one is closest to your rifle?
 
It looks like either top left or bottom right also the 4 LAR Mags I have all have Anti-Tilt Followers but I don't think that is a 100% cure for JHP and bottoming out. I think the best solution is the top right pic. Only one of my LAR mags has ever given me issues with FMJ just cycling the gun and its rare now, but all of them have at least given me somewhat of an issuewith JHP.

If anyones answer is then don't shoot JHP my reply is I don't really plan to unless the range states that is all that is allowed at which case I will cut the channels if they allow FMJ nothing is changing and I won't bother fixing it as I don't really think its broken.

I know this is not the best way to check a guns reliability however in this case I did a side by side comparison. FMJ cycled 40/40. When the JHP went through the first time they worked fine however once they were slightly scored(brass,jacket) from being loaded they started to fail leading me to believe the bullet is too weak and when it hits that "wall" like I said it just pushes itself back into the casing making a dangerous round if I were to actually discharge it. If I hit the bottom of the magazine it will close but it will continue to jam leading me to believe this gun is only meant for FMJ as they don't shoot JHP in the military correct?

So ... Its not the magazines, I don't think its the gun when its the ammo it wants and its a new gun that worked the only time I did fire it with FMJ. I just always seem to run into these problems that no one can give me a solid solution on. Not blaming anyone its just frustrating because someone will come on here and say. I shoot JHP exclusivlely with no issues whatsoever out of my Norinco.

Well hopefully the range will accept FMJ ammo being used if they open it up as I am convinced that the feed ramps are the issue as well as JHP.
 
Last edited:
non-m4.jpg


As you can see the copper marks on the Non-M4 ramps are quite high.

Now I haven't tried hollow points, but, I can't imagine them from what I am seeing causing a problem. Hmmmm now I want to try.

62gr American Eagle FMJ ammunition. Aeroprecision lower. ArmsEast N8CQB barrel/upper. Magpul EMAG. Never had an issue.

:)
 
BigGameHunter said:
It looks like either top left or bottom right
Click to expand...

Okay, then your upper reciever does not have the feed ramps. You can touch up the upper and make your own feed ramps, its best to take the barrel out so you dont mar up the barrel extension feedramps with your dremel.

Mark the profile and dremel away, sure it will not be anodized but will probablly feed your JHP ammo better and if you do mess it up, uppers arent that expensive.
 
G37 said:
non-m4.jpg


As you can see the copper marks on the Non-M4 ramps are quite high.

Now I haven't tried hollow points, but, I can't imagine them from what I am seeing causing a problem. Hmmmm now I want to try.

62gr American Eagle FMJ ammunition. Aeroprecision lower. ArmsEast N8CQB barrel/upper. Magpul EMAG. Never had an issue.

:)
Click to expand...

Looks normal to me.
 
Just remember M4 feed ramps were designed for the real deal M4. Since the real "M4" is fully auto and cycles at such a high firing rate the mag spring and follower sometimes can't keep up with it. So the M4 feed ramps were designed (made longer) to fix the feeding problem. Now the M4 is a military carbine and was designed to shoot and function with military ammunition (FMJ). Since we can't hunt with them in Canada ;) I don't see the need to feed it any type of hollow point bullet, especially if it won't feed through the gun :D Just my 2cents
 
I didn't know they were not recommended for AR's as this is taken straight from the Magpul site:

While EMAG remains 100% compatible with the AR15/M16 platform, its unique geometry is optimized for foreign-made weapons such as the HK 416, British SA-80, FN SCAR, Beretta ARX-160, IMI Tavor, and others.

I would assume that "100% compatible" means "good to go" But I'll keep an eye out for any problems I might experience using them. Thanks for the heads up.
 
G37 said:
Well, I can tell you that I have a barrel without the M4 ramps and from the EMAGS the rounds are feeding well above where the M4 ramps would be.

M4 Ramps sound like a tolerance-aid thing... if a mag is out of spec or not fitting properly, then M4 ramps help keep things running.

I could take a pic and post :)
Click to expand...

The whole thing is I don't want to buy 50 dollar 5 round magazines. I bought the M4 for the 10 round capability. You do have a point. Maybe what I will do is buy a couple neutered mags if I have to shoot it with JHP if that will work and then when I can shoot FMJ I will use the LAR. However with what you are saying I am pretty sure this gun still isn't really designed for JHP or else the stock magazines would sit higher as well would they not. No one wants to spend there hard earned money on a jamomatic.
 
pobcat said:
Just remember M4 feed ramps were designed for the real deal M4. Since the real "M4" is fully auto and cycles at such a high firing rate the mag spring and follower sometimes can't keep up with it. So the M4 feed ramps were designed (made longer) to fix the feeding problem. Now the M4 is a military carbine and was designed to shoot and function with military ammunition (FMJ). Since we can't hunt with them in Canada ;) I don't see the need to feed it any type of hollow point bullet, especially if it won't feed through the gun :D Just my 2cents
Click to expand...

That is what I think the only reason it would get the JHP or other is if the range banned Solid FMJ rounds. But then again if they are going to reinforce the wall to take a JHP would it not still be ok to throw some solid rounds downrange.
 
I still don't have a 10rnd mag, when I get one I'll take the same pics to see if there is any difference. I wonder if it could be a NORINCO spec thing?

I'm really curious now. I'll see about getting one in the next few days.

~cheers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom