1851 Italian reproduction .44 cal

Skinny 1950

Skinny 1950

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I have 2 1851 Colt reproductions on the way,one is .36 cal Uberti the other is .44 cal made in Italy (maker unknown). I am set up to cast conical bullets for the .36 but have heard the conicals are not as accurate as the balls. I will need to order some casting dies for the .44 and was wondering if anyone has experience shooting both conicals and balls if so which work better???
Also I would like to buy Canadian so if anyone knows a good place to buy black powder stuff I would appreciate the input....Thanks
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I have 2 1851 Colt reproductions on the way,one is .36 cal Uberti the other is .44 cal made in Italy (maker unknown). I am set up to cast conical bullets for the .36 but have heard the conicals are not as accurate as the balls. I will need to order some casting dies for the .44 and was wondering if anyone has experience shooting both conicals and balls if so which work better???
Also I would like to buy Canadian so if anyone knows a good place to buy black powder stuff I would appreciate the input....Thanks
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Conicals are less accurate....If they don`t seat properly, then they will be off center....Also, if you look at the bottom of the loading levers, you will see that they are rounded to allow proper seating of round balls....Trying to seat a conical means the point can be crushed out of shape, which will throw off accuracy....A proper sized round ball cannot be seated "off center".....
 
Ball n Cappers are set up for round ball,(the cylinder powder volume with seated ball and the barrels rate of twist).I would use round ball instead, it will be alot easier to seat the ball as well.

I wonder what the best rate of twist would be for a conical bullet? ,I could be
wrong on that point.
 
Since I first started this thread I have taken the Uberti to the range twice and tried the conical bullets...they were hard to load unless i filed some lead off the base of the bullet. After about 80 shots the gun jammed and I had to quit,I think a cap may have found it's way into the trigger works.The gun has been sent in for repairs and I have ordered a mold for .375 and .454 balls which will be better to use with these guns.
 
The .44 1851 I have was made by Pietta and I bought it used...it came with 30 .454 balls. The spring for the cylinder lock broke so I wasn't able to try the .454 balls out but they seemed to fit pretty good. I am using nearly pure lead so it is soft...I haven't received the mold in the mail yet and I hope the balls from it will work in my gun.
 
Sir - I have been shooting my Ruger Old Army at least once a week since the day I bought it, in 1985.

It is my experience that shooting conicals is a waste of lead, as the RB is more accurate, and for paper-punching certainly does the job at 25m.

Add to that the pain of loading them - and remember that the conical for the ROA is designed specifically for the gun, and has a nose that fits the loading lever and not a point - is just too much for me, and I'm getting old.

28gr of FFFg, and a ball, and a glop of sealer [here in UK a lot of us use a medical preparation called E45 - a white emulsified hand-cream], cap it off and you're good to go.

The same load with a conical has slightly more calamity about it, great to impress a noob, but accuracy is so-so.

tac
 
What I find funny is that if you read the manuals for Uberti and Pietta BP revolvers, the recommended charge is somehting like 14.5gr, which is ridiculous considering the period load was 24gr and these new guns are made of much more uniform and better steel.
 
i go a completely OTHER route- use the bullets out of my 45acp- 200 grain swcs in the old army, over 30 grains of ffg- and crisco to prevent chainfires- this is one accurate load, but it's also one that says " hey, hi, how are you?" in terms of recoil- it'll drop the loading lever at times- but that's what shooting black is all about- having fun- i KNOW there's cautions against shooting ANYTHING BUT pure lead in the manual, but LOOK at what you're shooting- it's a black powder version of a BLACKHAWK-change the cylinder and add a loading gate and that's EXACTLY what you have- well it's not quite that simple, but you get the idea-
 
t-star said:
i go a completely OTHER route- use the bullets out of my 45acp- 200 grain swcs in the old army, over 30 grains of ffg- and crisco to prevent chainfires- this is one accurate load, but it's also one that says " hey, hi, how are you?" in terms of recoil- it'll drop the loading lever at times- but that's what shooting black is all about- having fun- i KNOW there's cautions against shooting ANYTHING BUT pure lead in the manual, but LOOK at what you're shooting- it's a black powder version of a BLACKHAWK-change the cylinder and add a loading gate and that's EXACTLY what you have- well it's not quite that simple, but you get the idea-
Click to expand...

This is interesting.
I am thinking of my 1st BP gun. An old army.;)

And have a large # of 200 g SWC in .451 diameter 45 ACP bullets.
Any special considerations with these bullets for a guy new to black powder?
 
ruger22 said:
This is interesting.
I am thinking of my 1st BP gun. An old army.;)

And have a large # of 200 g SWC in .451 diameter 45 ACP bullets.
Any special considerations with these bullets for a guy new to black powder?
Click to expand...

other than a GOOD cleaning when you're done- none- you see .the BLACKHAWK part is more common between the 2 than what you're lead to believe- if you slug that barrel, you'll see it's a 451, same as the blackhawk,
you MIGHT run into a problem with poi, but that's what ADJUSTABLE sights are for- now, don't go off and load 30 grains right off the button- start about 22 and WORK YOUR WAY UP- 30 grains is WHAT'S OK IN MY REVOLVER- it'll actually take 33, but that's compress the load, seat the bullet, and compress again, and puts a LOT of stress on the loading lever- if it wasn't a swc, you wouldn't have room for your crisco- you can also use 45 colt bullets provided they're 451/2 diameter- that 457 is for SOFT LEAD ONLY and is supposed to crush out when you seat it- ie spread the skirt if it had one-you may get some blowby by going to 451, but i haven't seen it- i have a 45 pietta mold that i was using and it throws 44something, and the blowby is absolutely terrible- i got it BEFORE i found out the ruger needed a 457 in soft lead- it's one of those cheap brass things made in italy- throws a ball and a conical
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I think a cap may have found it's way into the trigger works.The gun has been sent in for repairs ....
Click to expand...

Colts and their copies are prone to jamming from errant spent caps.
These revolvers are easy to work on. A field strip will get your, every day BP residue, but you have to completely disassemble for a thorough clean every now and then.
It would be in your best interest(cheaper), to take it apart yourself rather than sending it out. KD
 
dixda said:
Colts and their copies are prone to jamming from errant spent caps.
These revolvers are easy to work on. A field strip will get your, every day BP residue, but you have to completely disassemble for a thorough clean every now and then.
It would be in your best interest(cheaper), to take it apart yourself rather than sending it out. KD
Click to expand...


About how many rounds with a SS old army can you shoot at the range till you need you get the gun home for a proper cleaning?

Like I can go hundreds with my current revolvers. Then a bore snake through the cylinders and good to go again.

Real beginner question. But I have never owned a BP gun.
 
Near-duplicate post, but with accentuated points -

Ruger Old Army = .457 pure soft lead - the gun is MADE to take this ball siize, it is not an accident, but intended to ensure a good shave and seal on loading.

Lee make a Ruger Old Army dedicated double mould.

Real black - around 25-30gr - you find out which is most suitable by shooting the thing. Rocket science it ain't.

I shoot maybe a twelve or fourteen cylinder loads - 72 to 84 shots in a session - then go home and clean up [me and the gun].

T-Star - respectfully, the idea is NOT to try and crush a soft lead bullet, but to ensure a good fit by force-fitting a slightly oversize ball into a chamber - the result is a good seal with a thin ring of lead shaved off - not a ball flattened onto the powder.

tac
 
Claven2 said:
What I find funny is that if you read the manuals for Uberti and Pietta BP revolvers, the recommended charge is somehting like 14.5gr, which is ridiculous considering the period load was 24gr and these new guns are made of much more uniform and better steel.
Click to expand...

It's called 'forestalling likely litigation'.

tac
 
i was relating what I do- ie what WORKS for me- i have BUCKETS of 451 swcs and that's what the bore size is- i've had my old army since 74( yea, it's a BLUED ONE) and that's result of many years of doing black powder-long before lee made a 457 mold- i've recovered spent bullets and seen the rifling engraved in the bullet- that tells me i'm getting a good fit - it just so happens that 45 colt and acp also use the same bore size- i've used the lee concial, and i prefer a lyman swc over that - and i can throw 6 bullets at once-
 
johnone said:
SKINNY 1950;
If you require parts for your Pietta we have them all in stock
John
Click to expand...

Thanks.... I may need some later. The Uberti 1851 that is in for repair is brand new and is being fixed under warranty (I hope).Could take some time to get it back so I have a Pietta 1851 in .44cal which I should be able to get going by next weekend (parts in the mail from Marstar). The cylinder lock spring broke as I was about to go to the range so I have it all taken apart...it is simple inside. I will replace a few things with the kit that I ordered.Should be good to go after that for years.
 
ruger22 said:
About how many rounds with a SS old army can you shoot at the range till you need you get the gun home for a proper cleaning?

Like I can go hundreds with my current revolvers. Then a bore snake through the cylinders and good to go again.

Real beginner question. But I have never owned a BP gun.
Click to expand...

Stainless steel isn't as likely to deteriorate as fast as steel from moisture and BP residue. You can use Windex to clean them.
Depending on cylinder/barrel gap and base pin tolerances, shoot it 'til it binds from the BP soot, then give it a field strip wipe the base pin and where the base pin goes through the cylinder, then have at her again.
If you're shooting steel BP revolvers, clean the barrel, cylinder, and nipples ASAP when you get home. Then dry and oil so it doesn't rust.
There are many sites on the net to help with care and feeding of these great old irons. KD
 
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