308/7.62 Nato as a Main carbine??
- Thread starter AbHobbyist
- Start date
ColassalEntry
Regular
- Location
- VANCOUVER!
If you've read any of LT. colonal grossmans books you would know that you'd need louder guns to instill fear into the opposition. Aside from a SURPRISINGLY small percentage of civilians. Most people don't have what it takes to pull that trigger. They'll freeze and panic. You want that extra OUMPH to make them more afraid. Its a pyscological detterant to contronting you both to other members of the oppositions group and other people in the environment. Most people won't move towards gunfire. This is all hypothetical of course.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This is why posting while drunk is a bad idea
Are you kidding me???!!! I post drunk all the time...
I was using a 7.62 NATO GENUINE Dutch built AR 10,
with a chopped 18 1/2" barrel,
a custom built comp,
with a co-witnessed red dot on top of a custom milled 1/2 flat top,
and a skeletonised tubular butt stock with AR 15 hand guards,
in practical rifle competition WAYYyyyyyy back in the late 80s and early 90s ....
that would be 1980s and 1990s.
A shorty AR 10 was [ and still is ] my all around favorite go to ?rifle? ?carbine? ?whateveryawanttocallit?
[;{()
When the GENUINE AR 10 parts started drying up, I switched over to the M14 family, again usually with an 18 1/2" chopped barrel, a comp, and a pistol grip stock.
The power of a full sized BATTLE RIFLE cartridge, in ?some thing? the size of a carbine, has always made a lot of sense to me.
I personally feel that going shorter than 18 1/2" with the full powered .308 Win/7.62 NATO cartridge, is going past the point of diminishing returns, and that the muzzle blast and velocity loss outweighs the improved handling of the shorter barrels. However, I am sure there are some 16" barreled AR 10 owners out there who will disagree. I have a spare R25 upper, and am considering chopping it down to 18 1/2" ....
or maybe some one can convince me 16" is better???
But I am not getting rid of my AR 15 shorty just yet ....
if only to shoot .22 LR ammo out of my CMMG conversion kit for inexpensive practice.
Of course,
as with any opinions expressed on the internet,
YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
didnt you drop that ar-10 at the courtenay gun show?
Yes and no.
The scope is under contract to a military element - but Leupold is working on some different varients for larger customers.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well I was impressed with the SD so it must really be something!!! I'll keep my eyes open and if we make it down that way in the spring I'll stop by...
Unless, the frame is being used as an arc of fire perimeter.
It obvoiusly wasn't a bayonet course. I quess i'm old schooled. lmao.
Did he hit the target?
The .308 is my favourite all round cartridge, considering the better knock down power over a 5.56. I've been a situation where the .308 actually saved my ass at very close range involving a bear where the .223 would have had poor results.
the reason we went there is because despite everyone in NATO buying 7.62 x 51 at the insistance of the USA the US decided to go down the 5.56 road on their own. Eventually we would have had to get there.
I served throughout the transition and it wasnt a pretty time. Operational ammo was scarce, training ammo was bought from anywhere and often the dregs. Lmgs wouldnt function due to poor ammo and armourers were denied spares for the L1A1.
The the tupperware arrived and what a pig was foisted on us. Mine fell apart so often it was in the armourers more than on patrol. Yes it was accurate and yes we could carry more ammo but what a waste just to sweeten the sale of Royal Ordnance. We had almost enough ARs and some M16 A1's in store to get by but the powers decided we would have a bullpup. Now we are ditching Germany and wont have mech for war so no need for a bullpup.
remember, even in nam, the m16 wasn't universal- a lot of the "old guard"- savvy sergants and people that had been around a lot turned in their m14s or conviently "dropped in battle" , only to re-acquired from marvin at the friday/saturday nite poker game, or exchanged for pogey bait- what was really interesting was how some of the special forces guys acuired "exotics"- like g3s, fn( probably off some aussie) and a whole bunch of others- as for not being able to handle the recoil, BALONEY- the 150 standard loading is NOTHING in the recoil department- even the 180 is still mild, and that's WELL OUTSIDE the standard- the REASON that the us went to the 55 grain 223/5.56 round was NUMBER OF ROUNDS CARRIED , and the adoption of the spray and pray philosphy- the m16 was DESIGNED AS A AIRFIELD PROTECTION WEAPON, to replace the M1 CARBINE- not a main battle rifle- but the boys at colt and armalite wanted the BIG contract, and showed it to a board and MCNAMARA , who was influenced to adopt it- that fact that it took 3 rounds to do the job of 1 308, had only a 400 yard range didn't matter- and the m14 was NEVER FIELDED AGAINST IT FOR COMPARISON-
