Dog Trainers... HELP!

bill c68

bill c68

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Prince Edward Island
Looking for a little help from some experienced dog trainers...

My Labrador has been a pretty good dog, I can only blame myself for any of her bad habits. There are 3 major issues I want to correct. can you provide advice on what techniques and exercises I can use to help her.
Here are my issues in order:

3. Getting too far a ahead when upland hunting and not stopping when I call her back (2 whistles) This is a small and rare issue with her.

2. Dropping ducks too soon and not bring the duck to hand.

1. This is the most important, my last couple hunts, dog at side, no blind and nowhere to tie her, she is chasing the ducks before we can shoot them. This is very frustrating. But I want to keep my dog within sight of the birds.

Also as an aside, I have never even attempted to train my dog on blind retrieves and would like to do this someday.

Thanks Y'all
 
Electric shock collar; but FIRST learn how to use it properly or you will ruin your dog for life!
Buy a book, take a course. Just don't go buy a collar and start indiscriminately zapping your dog.
 
I am very reluctant to buy a shock collar and am willing to do the extra work in training "old school" also i can;t afford one right now, but I really do not wish to use one. My dog is quite obedient, she just needs the proper training, she wants to please however, I don't think she knows what is expected of her and I really just need to know how to train, now how to correct.

I was planning to have a buddy, out of sight, throw dummies or pigeons etc for my dog into a pond and have her sit at my side until I let her go. I am not opposed to physical discipline but would prefer not to use the shock collar.
 
A shock collar is NOT made to punish. It is a training aid and is used to reenforce good behaviour (vibrate) or discourage bad behaviour. Think of it as a 500' long leash.

Not meant to electrocute the dog because you are pissed at it.

It has to be used with love and patience.

My guy very rarely gets zapped, just to remind him of stuff he tends to momentarily forget.

You have to train dog for a sit/stay.
Throw dummy in water. (keep dog on leash) If headstrong, you can also try a "pinch collar".
When YOU are ready, give the command to retrieve and unsnap leash.
Follow up with copious amounts of praise and a tid-bit.

Also train with a whistle (save your voice) works great.
 
Griffoneur said:
A shock collar is NOT made to punish. It is a training aid and is used to reenforce good behaviour (vibrate) or discourage bad behaviour.

Not meant to electrocute the dog because you are pissed at it.

It has to be used with love and patience.

My guy very rarely gets zapped, just to remind him of stuff he tends to momentarily forget.

You have to train dog for a sit/stay.
Throw dummy in water. (keep dog on leash) If headstrong, you can also try a "pinch collar".
When YOU are ready, give the command to retrieve and unsnap leash.
Follow up with copious amounts of praise and a tid-bit.

Also train with a whistle (save your voice) works great.
Click to expand...

With leash was one of my thoughts, as she progresses, should I remove the leash? I can't always have her leashed in the field.

And does it make sense to have the dummy thrown from a blind location by another person?

I think there is an unused pinch collar at my father's house.

Thanks,
 
All you have there is an obedience issue. She may be obedient in the house or when on a leash for a walk, but when she gets too far for upland and you call her and she does not come, or she chases ducks, or drops them before she retrieves to hand, that is obedience. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in dog training is centered around obedience. I am a novice trainer, I have three weimaraners that I use for upland hunting, tracking, and waterfowl. The one thing I have learned is that obedience is the key, and an E collar is a very valuable tool, how ever the dog MUST have mastered the command it is being corrected for with the E collar. For example, if you put the E collar on, tell the dog a command it has mastered ie: "SIT" and the dog doesn't sit, a light "nick" on the collar and the dog will almost always instantly respond with the appropriate reaction...it will sit. However, if you tell the dog a command it does not know, ie: "COME" and it does not come, then you nick it with the collar, the dog hears..."BLAH" and then ZAP! And it will not understand why it got the correction for something it did not do, remember the dog does not understand come. All training should be backed up with lots of praise and love when the dog acheives your goals, keep it fun and light hearted and the dog will excel. Good luck!
 
Getting to far ahead. You STOP, stay put & wait for the dog to return AND/OR you HIDE & wait for the dog to return. Eventually with patience, the dog learns that there will be NO more birds & fun if they range out too far.

Dropping birds to soon. You train Force Fetch. Essentially it is the slow & progressive method of teaching your dog when you say FETCH, the dog MUST put something in it's mouth. Start with the dog under your control, sitting & on leash. Say FETCH, & gently open the dogs mouth & place the glove in the dogs mouth, the dog MUST hold it till you command GIVE. Repeat over several training sessions till the dog opens its own mouth & accepts the glove & holds till you say GIVE. Next, hold the glove in front of the dog & say FETCH. Dog will now reach for the glove & hold it till you say GIVE. DO NOT RUSH THIS PROCESS & be gentle, no force, just be patient. Now, you can place the glove on the ground & command FETCH, with the dog holding it till you command GIVE... See where we are going??? Now your dog is understanding it MUST retrieve & hold till it is commanded GIVE. The final steps are extending the distance & varying the items the dog is commanded to retrieve. This whole process MUST NOT be rushed & should take 3 to 4 weeks of consistent & short training sessions with the dog under your control on leash so you can enforce (gently) that the dog MUST do as commanded. If at any time you loose your patience, STOP, do something the dog knows, reward the dog & train later!

Now, as for not being steady to birds. My advice is to get some pigeons... Your dog knows how to SIT & STAY, correct? (For varying lengths of time.... Say 15 seconds to several minutes...) If so, the first step is done for you. For this one, you may need a partner or long rope looped around something so the dog can not move toward the bird... My preference being for another helper to enforce SIT & STAY, hands on... (GENTLY remember, this is NOT punishment, rather consistent & gentle training that you want the dog to learn from NOT avoid...) Next, teather a pigeon to something so it can not fly way. Command your dog to SIT & STAY, place the pigeon on the ground & gently nudge the pigeon so it tries to fly away. Your dog MUST STAY, if not, replace the dog, again commanding SIT & STAY! Repeat, REpeat, REPeat, REPEat, REPEAt, REPEAT!!! This process will teach your dog that it must SIT & STAY in the presence of birds.

Now your dog will SIT & STAY in the presence of birds. The final step is to REWARD the dog by shooting the bird & commanding FETCH.

Voila!!!

Cheers
Jay
P.S. Patience, kindness & consistent SHORT training sessions are required for ALL of the above. My suggestion would be that you recognize what you want to change about your dogs behaviour, now set about doing it by setting up a training session calendar & by next season you will have the pup your looking for! In my case, my pup is 11 months old, god he's a pita in the duck blind... BUT, I recognize he's a pup & sitting quietly for him is like asking a 3 year old to sit quiet in church. Ain't gonna happen... So, patience on my part, keep at the training & NEXT year WILL be better!!! Job #1 is HAVE FUN!!! Your dog wants to please, he/she just doesn't know what you want till you show them! GENTLY!
 
Invest in a couple of books, or go to the library most have them or can get them. I suggest Waterdog, and if you can find it The Labrador Shooting Dog by Mike Gould. I still go back and read over certain parts when in doubt.

Also search for Wildrose kennels they have excellent DVDs on training without breaking the dogs spirit!

Cheers and good luck.
 
I agree with spike162 that you need to read as much as you can from good sources. I would suggest obedience training for you if you have not done so already. Also time spent with the dog before hunting season is a must. You probably go to the range or shoot clays to get ready, the dog needs some pre-season practice as well.
 
My German Shorthair Pointer did this a few times and I did a couple of things that made him stop. The first few times when he got too far ahead I did a 180 and started walking the opposite direction. He didnt like that but he continued that behavior a few more times and I just hide in the grass. He kinda panicked when he lost sight of me. Do it a few times and he'll probably stop if you're the leader. Dogs always follow the pack leader.
I also use a Tri-Tronics e-collar and when used properly, no tool works better for training. I zap myself with the collar and it doesnt hurt, then again I don't crank it up. If you're dog is not listening and running you sure as heck better hope he doesnt run into trouble like a porcupine or a moving vehicle. A quick nick on the e-collar can save a dogs life if he's not very obediant. Good luck with your training, nothing is more rewarding then a good field dog!!

Cheers!!
 
With leash was one of my thoughts, as she progresses, should I remove the leash? I can't always have her leashed in the field.
Click to expand...

What I have found works well is to take some marine rope and make a loop like a choke chain, but leave a tail that you can hang onto to maintain control and just let go when you release the dog.

Just be sure the tail is short enough that the dog will not trip.
 
Jay has given some very sound advice. Patience and a firm but gentle hand, with consistent short training periods have turned many a PITA dogs into some pretty good field dogs. Also, search out your local training group, there is almost certainly one near by, work with them and learn!
 
Billc68

It looks like you have gotten some good insight from some of the members, how are you making out?

Griffoneur,Crashman and Jay gave you some good advice (others also). It sounds like your expectations are not high so you should be able to achieve your goals even if you are new to working with gun dogs.

There are a lot of good gun dog videos out there that will guide you in successfully achieving your goals. Contact me at eclipse888888@hotmail.com if you would like further info on them.

Please do re-consider the E-Collar thing. These devices are a training aids and when used properly are worth there weight in gold. I have trained multiple dogs to “finished” level and I would have not got the results I did without one.
In the mean time work on following:

Basic obedience, Sit and stay mean’s sit and stay!. Also consider heal, lay down and here in this. Tough love will make your dog a better all around gun dog and house pet

Force fetching, start this with the ear pinch/Hold and work you way into applying more pressure, its best to watch a good video and follow it closely. I don’t think you will enjoy this and I will bet my farm that your dog will hate this but it is an essential part of gun dog training that must be done properly, if not done properly you will see half ass results. Be firm and stick to your guns as this is a forced command.

As for your quartering problem I’d get your dog started with whistle sit and a whistle here commands and then move to the “T” drill. When this is understood you will be able to work on quartering. When you are working on the above you will need a long lead 50’ long and choke the lead to you desired working length. This is teaching control and is also the beginnings to casting and the blind retrieve that you are wanting to work towards.

Stick it out and know how to read your dog! When has she had to much? When is she saying FU? And the most important, when is she confused? And know how to break down the exercise and simplify so she understands.

And make sure your dog has had a good amount of kennel time before a training secession so she has some drive, don’t take her training after she has hunted or has been playing with the kids for 4 hours.

Good luck!

Matt
 
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