So I joined the case separation club, courtesy of my M14

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Northman999

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At the range last week, putting a few rounds though my 2007 Norc M14 when I pull the trigger and nothing happens...never happened before.

I wait about 90 seconds with the rifle still pointed at my target and then lean over and glance at my action, finger off the trigger.

Guess what I see....

308WinSeparated1.jpg


Hmm. Never seen that exact thing in real life before either. Kind of surprised me, as I had a system set up (reload brass 5x and then pitch) just to avoid this kind of thing. This brass (Winchester) was only reloaded 3X, and still had fine primer pockets etc. Apparently no system is foolproof!

Anybody out there consistently getting several reloads out of brass in their M14? Do tell!

:cheers:
 
Depends on your brass,chamber, load, and a pile of other voodoo, but I can get more then 5 out of mine pretty easily. The chrome plated stuff seems to last the longest out of commercial brass, but military brass is better.

When you are loading a batch that are all loaded X times, put a hooked paperclip in the neck, and feel for a groove developing where yours separated. If you feel that, either toss the batch of brass, or know that you will likely have separations on the next firing.
 
I've tried the paperclip thing and maybe I've got no sensetivity in my fingers or something, but I can't feel squat. I even tried on a partially separated (1/2 way round) case, and I couldn't feel anything on the side that was still there, despite it being pretty obvious that there must be significant thinning there. Maybe I'll get a better grade piece of metal and try with that.
 
I just got a good artical from a fellow CGN the other day on reloading for the M14 or M14S. The only brass you should ever use is military and never relaod more that 4 times, so if you buy once fired brass, you'll only reload it 3 times. He mention the reason is, that the M14 system is just brutal on brass due to it's super high ejection speeds. As for civi barss, I don't think I'd reload it anymore that once, just to be safe. Also, make sure you "always" fully resize the brass, "never" just neck size it. As he explains, if there is no expantion, there will be no contration in the chamber....

This advice applies to the M305 or M14, not a bolt action rifle or other 308 semi-auto rifles.
 
These rifles tend to have headspace that is generous.
If cases are FL sized in SAAMI spec dies, with the shellholder contacting the die, every time the case is fired there could be excess headspace, and this will contribute to case separations, just as in the posted photo.
If you don't have access to headspcae gauges, contact Hungry, and make arrangements to send him three once fired cases. He will measure them, and let you know how your rifle is set up.
Cases used in auto rifles must be sized for easy chambering, but not overly resized.
Take a few of your fired cases, and section the heads with a hacksaw and file. If there are incipient separations, you will see the groove.
 
I found with my Norc barrel that the brass was way more difficult to run thru the die than brass from my bolt gun. That went away when I started neck sizing only. You just can't interchange brass then. Once I got a TRW bolt I went back to full length sizing. I do however still keep my brass seperate and use one batch for M14- AR10 and good brass for the bolt gun
 
been there. done that with the REAL thing- a springfield- when mine let go, it split the stock and blew the mag all to heck( the tube- you could salvage the spring and follower) and locked the action forward- we managed to get the bolt to open, and then we found a partial separation in the head area- and it was WINCHESTER brass as well- i keep VERY careful count on reloads, and this again was at 4- so it's 3 and go for me- btw, i fired the rifle again later, once repairs were complete, and it was fine- it hadn't re-set the lugs or anything
 
In order to feel the groove in case I sharpen the end ot the hook to a fine point or thin wedge shape. If left flat, it might bridge the small groove and you will not feel it.
 
If you happen to have a seperation in the chamber and need to get the neck portion of the case out, a shotgun brush pushed part way thru the broken case works well to pop them out. This will save your day at the range.

JT
 
Okay, thanks for the tips fellows.

I actually thought I had things going well, as I have been shooting my M14 for three years and nary a hitch.

I'll shop around for some military brass, stick to 4 reloads, and make myself a good "feeler" for checking for thinning inside the brass.
 
Northman999 said:
Okay, thanks for the tips fellows.

I actually thought I had things going well, as I have been shooting my M14 for three years and nary a hitch.

I'll shop around for some military brass, stick to 4 reloads, and make myself a good "feeler" for checking for thinning inside the brass.
Click to expand...

The brass that I am currently using is the stuff from the PMC 308 from TSE. Not good brass for precision, but nice and thick, and gets a number of loads out of it.

If you want to make a better feeler, grab one of the street sweeper bristles off the street, and bend the tip so that it is at about a 120 degree angle, and dremel it off. It will hold shape better, and the point will make an audiable click when it hits the grouve on the inside.

Also, if you are buying a broken case extractor(shotgun brush above) a 223 one will most always work on 308, and 7.62x39, as well as 308. It also fits in that hole in the butstock.
 
I don't know anything about the type of rifle you are talking about, so probably I shouldn't comment. However, I am very familiar with head seperation. It basically has one cause, too short of a cartridge fired in too long of a chamber.
The solution is to have a cartridge that fits the chamber. Tiriaq has given the proper way to overcome it, but short of sending away the brass, I would try neck resizing, to the point where the die just kisses the shoulder. If this doesn't chamber as it should, size it just a hair more.
If the rifle has a great amount of excess head space, the first firing of a new round will severely weaken the brass. Solution is to fire form new brass, using some method of holding the base against the bolt face when it is fired.
 
H4831 said:
I don't know anything about the type of rifle you are talking about, so probably I shouldn't comment. However, I am very familiar with head seperation. It basically has one cause, too short of a cartridge fired in too long of a chamber.
The solution is to have a cartridge that fits the chamber. Tiriaq has given the proper way to overcome it, but short of sending away the brass, I would try neck resizing, to the point where the die just kisses the shoulder. If this doesn't chamber as it should, size it just a hair more.
If the rifle has a great amount of excess head space, the first firing of a new round will severely weaken the brass. Solution is to fire form new brass, using some method of holding the base against the bolt face when it is fired.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Good suggestion.
 
A dental pick also makes an excellent tool for detecting incipient head separations.

+1 on neck sizing if your rifle has excess headspace. This is what Hungry recommends in his M14 clinics for those rifles having more than .010" over minimum headspace.
 
I have some Winchester cases that have been through a documented 15 firings in my Norinco M14S, loaded with 147 FMJ to NATO spec velocities every time.

Case head separations are almost certainly a result of excess headspace, and that varies from rifle to rifle (especially with Norincos). Just because one rifle suffers separations at 3 rounds ( or 5, or 15) doesn't mean they all will. I smirk at people who throw perfectly good brass in the trash after x number of firings because the internet told them they should.
 
Neck sizing- make darn sure that rounds chamber freely. If one were to hang up, there is the possibility of an out of battery slamfire.
Separated cases can result from excess headspace. Rare on first firing, much more likely with reloads, particularly if the excess headspace is ignored when resizing. It is entirely possible to work around this. It is not a good idea to just ignore the situation, and assume that retiring brass after a certain number of reloads will be sufficient.
Best to find out exactly what you are dealing with.
 
In an M14 there are many things that can contribute to this, xs headspace, soft brass, type of load.

To eliminate HS as an issue you have to measure HS before and after firing, if you are getting 10 thou stretch then you need to necksize, but in an autoloader like the M14 you need to ensure smooth cycling, this may involve the use of a small base bushing die, such as a redding type S, and set the die to ensure you do not bump the shoulder excessively. An out of battery discharge is much worse than tearing the base of of a piece of brass

You may also have had a piece of bad brass, I have had this happen once to me and it was the first time firing of the brass from that lot, obviously the problem was the brass since I have fired hundreds of reloaded brass in the same rifle.

There is alot of abuse that brass endures in a rifle like an M14, some softer brass sticks to the chamber wall and this results in alot of friction during extraction. In one of my m14 rifles (douglas bbl with match chamber) I cannot use Norma brass as nearly half will fail to extract. Nickel federal, South African military or Swiss Gevalot brass work fine.
 
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