Admin Load, so you do it?
- Thread starter Amazingkg3
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Dude, you're definitely at the right place then.
Everything you need to know about shooting is here on cgn. There are tons of experts that can show you the errors of your ways.
Just keep surfing and you'll see little gems of advice here and there.
You're still ahead of me on the FAST wall though......
I didn't exactly set the range on fire either! lol
Good thing there's cgn to teach me the errors of my ways and show me how it should really be done!
lo and behold!! See the next post below for exactly what I was talking about!!
I love cgn and the wealth of knowledge imparted buy such passionate and 'experienced' shooters that have honed their techniques, even if they aren't considered professionals (by that, I'm guessing you have to be paid while carrying a gun to be considered a professional...).
I didn't exactly set the range on fire either! lol
Good thing there's cgn to teach me the errors of my ways and show me how it should really be done!
lo and behold!! See the next post below for exactly what I was talking about!!
I love cgn and the wealth of knowledge imparted buy such passionate and 'experienced' shooters that have honed their techniques, even if they aren't considered professionals (by that, I'm guessing you have to be paid while carrying a gun to be considered a professional...).
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So let me see here. Lets connect the bold in your top post to the bold in your bottom post. First you proclaim that because a pro does a press check it must be correct. For starters, a pro is someone who is paid to perform a certain/specific vocation and is often trained or selected for such. How receiving a pay cheque somehow correlates with ones skill level is still unclear. In your second post(the bold) you indicate that these same "professionals" receive a limited amount of training for their professional careers. So which is it, are they professionals who know what is and is not right, or are they professionals who receive below par training???
Now I'm not a big time gamer but it seems odd that all the major gaming circuits are usually won by non professionals. In my experience I see very few "professionals" attending any sort of shooting competition.
To address the mis loaded mag issue. When my mag holds ten rounds, I count out ten rounds and continue stuffing them in until ALL ten are in the magazine. If the last round doesn't fit I inspect the mag, even unload it and reload it again until it accepts ALL ten rounds. Should the mag still not accept all ten it gets binned and replaced. Remember, magazines are EXPENDABLE items, we don't JB weld them, bend the lips or otherwise revive dead/worn magazines, we replace them.
As for other mag related issues such as the nose diving and other assorted hangups. These types of magazine failures can occur during operation. If it was/is such a concern then replacing the magazine or the platform is in order. I can honestly say I have never had a magazine fail to feed rounds, ever. I have broken the corner of the follower that activates the slide catch on several magazines. However, I cycle the slide after inserting a fresh magazine so the slide position is a moot point.
The loaded mag seated against a closed slide failure is a crock or the result of a piss poor design. If the magazine capacity is published at 10/12/15/17 I had better be able to insert a full 10/12/15/17 round magazine on a closed slide and have the pistol function. After all, isn't a tactical reload replicating this exact situation? Perhaps with those platforms that exhibit such failures all users download their magazines to compensate?
Oh and double stacking and staggering is describing the same event. I think you meant to say the rounds will SINGLE stack instead of stagger.
TDC
TDC, they are professionals that have been taught the proper way to perform an administrative load. I know you find it hard to believe that someone could actually miscount the rounds in a mag, or mess up a loading / unloading process, or not seat a mag properly, or load 16 rounds into a 15 round mag. But in the real world, people do odd things sometimes, especially when fatigue or other factors are at play. That is why you drill a process that works, and that means making double sure you have a round chambered when the gun goes in the holster.
And the loaded mag seated on a closed slide failure is actually a reality, I've seen it happen in Glock's and Beretta's more than a few times (you know, those piss poor designs).
And the loaded mag seated on a closed slide failure is actually a reality, I've seen it happen in Glock's and Beretta's more than a few times (you know, those piss poor designs
).
Didnt have time to read through all the posts, but an Administrative load has less to with the seating of the bullet than it it refers to the situation or location of the loading of your firearm. An administrative load would follow a function test, and its done at the office prior to you going on shift.
Admin loads are conducted away from a fight, where as a tactical reload for example.. is done during a gun fight.
Admin loads are conducted away from a fight, where as a tactical reload for example.. is done during a gun fight.
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When I say Pro I mean someone who carries a gun for a living/job not a competition shooter. That said I'm one of the few paid semi pro competition shooters in the country and I shoot more in a month than probably 90% of the people here combined. I press check before every stage at every match unless its an unloaded gun start. I press check when I demo drills for students and I press check when I'm practicing. Yet I've never press checked during a stage when reloading. Never.
On the subject of how mags "better" fit the rounds they are advertised to hold, well maybe you should talk to HK about how many you should in an MP5 mag for example. 30 round mag, but only load 29. Colt AR15 30 round mags used to have the same recommendation if I remember correctly. You can attempt to justify your position through as many rants as you like, but it sure seems to me like your position is getting weaker and weaker with every post.
On the subject of how mags "better" fit the rounds they are advertised to hold, well maybe you should talk to HK about how many you should in an MP5 mag for example. 30 round mag, but only load 29. Colt AR15 30 round mags used to have the same recommendation if I remember correctly. You can attempt to justify your position through as many rants as you like, but it sure seems to me like your position is getting weaker and weaker with every post.
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Are you serious??????? Maybe you should jump off the spec ops bandwagon and his a competition match or even read about them.
Ok lets see.
Rob Leatham.......Pro
Jerry Barnhart....Pro
Todd Jarrett......Pro
Dave Sevigny....Pro
Julie Golowski....Pro
Bob Munden......Pro
John Pride.........Pro
Doug Koenig......Pro
Bruce Piatt.......Pro
The list goes on and on and all are paid professionals. As a matter of fact it is very well known that many of the pro shooters who have never had any sort of LE or Mil experience are currently working on Government Contracts teaching LE and Mil personal. Shooters like Jarrett and Leatham are doing training for spec ops operator all the time. As far as professionals in Le and mil are concerned with attending competitions, well once again wrong, there are lots of LE and military personal competing in shooting like IDPA and IPSC all over.
TDC, they are professionals that have been taught the proper way to perform an administrative load. I know you find it hard to believe that someone could actually miscount the rounds in a mag, or mess up a loading / unloading process, or not seat a mag properly, or load 16 rounds into a 15 round mag. But in the real world, people do odd things sometimes, especially when fatigue or other factors are at play. That is why you drill a process that works, and that means making double sure you have a round chambered when the gun goes in the holster.
And the loaded mag seated on a closed slide failure is actually a reality, I've seen it happen in Glock's and Beretta's more than a few times (you know, those piss poor designs
We've come full circle. What makes a method the "right" way and who taught the "professionals" this method? The same people who teach the "pros" are the same folks the average joe can learn from as well, so does tht mean the average joe is a pro, or does he need to be paid to make the title??
You say that even "pros" make mistakes when loading mags. So by that logic the same "pros" could make a mistake in their press check or not do one at all. If the potential for mistake is there why trust the gun or ones abilities at all?? Your witnessing a particular pistol and shooter experience a failure does not translate into said make/model being prone to such issues. Without inspecting the gun, knowing the shooters skill set and confirming the number of rounds loaded, you are speculating. I personally I have never experienced such failures in the 30K plus rounds I have fired through one particular Glock and zero failures in the other 3 that have seen approximately 4k more rounds. I can say none of my fellow Glock shooting friends has ever experienced a failure of the type you describe as well.
The 28 rounds in a 30 round AR mag is an issue with the magazine feeding properly and/or seating properly. It has nothing to do with the rifle functioning properly.
Your interpretation of a pro is exactly what I meant as well. I coud care less about those who are sponsored to shoot paper. A pro is one who carries for a living where their life depends on it. To that point, Steve, you need to look at your list again. To the best of my knowledge, all the names listed are sponsored civilians, not active military or police. More to the point, as you posted many of the "pro" shooters instruct LE and MIL. So is actual combat experience or years on the beat really necessary to be considered an "expert" or atleast have a firm understanding of shooting technique?? based on the information below I would say no. Although in another thread the exact opposite is being pushed. So which is it. Do you need "street cred" to validate your opinions/methods or not???
TDC
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Its you're not your, and I never said I was an expert. Did you not read my last post???
TDC
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
Again, when and where have I ever stated I was an expert?? Again, since when does operational experience automatically translate into being an expert??
TDC
Because experience does count. There does come a point when Tier 1 Mil/LE and Pro competition shooters can be described as experts.
Regardless of your opinion on which way is right, there is only 1 way to know a round is in your gun, you have to see it. That's it, its the only way. Every other way you describe relies on something else other than visual confirmation of the round being there. Sure in the dark you might not be able to do that, but then again one likely wouldn't be doing an Admin load in the dark either.
30k through one gun, 4k through another. Big deal. However we have numerous LEOs responding in this thread who are firearms instructors or have been, numerous other firearms instructors (both civ and LE) as well as competitors who have all seen, experienced and heard of jams and malfs from your idea of correct either in training or real life. How the hell can you even possibly think you're right? Its delusionall dude.
Regardless of your opinion on which way is right, there is only 1 way to know a round is in your gun, you have to see it. That's it, its the only way. Every other way you describe relies on something else other than visual confirmation of the round being there. Sure in the dark you might not be able to do that, but then again one likely wouldn't be doing an Admin load in the dark either.
30k through one gun, 4k through another. Big deal. However we have numerous LEOs responding in this thread who are firearms instructors or have been, numerous other firearms instructors (both civ and LE) as well as competitors who have all seen, experienced and heard of jams and malfs from your idea of correct either in training or real life. How the hell can you even possibly think you're right? Its delusionall dude.
I never said I was right, I am simply supporting a method that is more effective than another. I thought there was no "one way" just "a way" of doing it? You are correct, experience does count, but it doesn't count for sh*t if you've never bothered to learn a method or practice an inferior method. Again I ask, does years of "operational experience" automatically translate into knowledge and an expert status???
Removing the magazine as a method of ensuring a chambered round CANNOT induce a stoppage(jam is what you spread on toast). Playing with the slide CAN induce a stoppage. What is so difficult to understand?
TDC
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