Are you disillusionised when shopping for a black rifle?

#### Proenneke said:
I know that this is not a new black rifle, but we have a company that the Canadian Forces used to build and supply its rifles, "Diemaco." Now "Colt Canada." In order to operate in Canada, this company has been specifically instructed by the Government of Canada to not sell domestically, except to law enforcement. If they designed a new rifle the same would happen.
Click to expand...

This does not surprise me, and I completely agree that the same would almost certainly happen with any new rifle. To not do it would be political suicide--you'd get all kinds of rapid anti-gun people ripping the government apart for creating serial killer machines.

I would really love to buy some kind of Canadian-designed black rifle, but it seems like that just ain't in the cards.
 
The cost of development and then production is prohibitive even for small and simple parts. For example the SPEX brake cost more to make than the retail price of a Noveski KX3 brake. We simply cannot compete with economies of scale at work in the US.

The SPEX had only two parts while a complete rifle has dozens of parts, each one of which has to be designed, tested and then manufactured. Then it all has to work together properly which requires some testing to make sure of.

Then there is the CDN gun owner. Each one of which wants something different and most of whom are pathologically cheap.

So what you are asking for is the world on a beer and natcho's budget. Good luck with that, it will NEVER happen.
 
daedra83 said:
Then I guess I'm totally wrong. I thought I wasn't the only one to think like that. So I should stick with the easiest solution. Keep buying American and #####ing about the price.
Click to expand...
If you are #####ing about prices now, I can only imagine when a Canadian made gun comes along. Do you think it would be cheaper? :rolleyes:
 
we could buy a G3 or Ak47 factory from overseas for set up in Western Canada.Then the Federal Government would have to support it because of western diversification/and transfer payments to the provinces. Then, you apply for a licence to produce Ar15/m16's and any replacement rifle that Canada plans to produce in the future. Because of all of the threats to Pax America, we need to have more than one factory producting defense weapons for Canadian Forces.
 
$2000-$3000 for a black rifle to take it locked up to a range, shoot at paper then lock it back up again and take home? Or do you spend $200 for that SKS that you can also take hunting with you? Economics Oh before people start flaming me....I have used and fired black rifles more than the majority of people on this board. When it comes to cost, why are they so expensive? Disillusioned.............yes
 
Tell the US to get rid of their ridiculous export fee schedules and we'll be on track. Remember, under the current system each time a company applies for an export permit the price of permits goes up. If you sell 500 rifles in a year....that starts becoming a huge number. The system is designed to keep firearms in the US.
 
werewolf said:
I'll stick with my $2000 just broke in XCR.
Click to expand...

To me, the XCR is the best combination here in Canada for a non-restricted rifle that is moderately priced, accurate, and accepts AR mags.

That was one of my best purchases to date. I put a Bushnell Elite 6500 on mine and use it for hunting in either .223 or 6.8... fantastic rifle. Great range gun too.
 
I have no illusions regarding the status of the Canadian firearms market. Some people just keep expecting a miracle on ice to occur and our prices to magically match what we see in the US.
 
daedra83 said:
I admit, it's an issue but can still be done.
Click to expand...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is time for an economics lesson.

If it could be done as easily as you suggest, it would already have been done. Simply put, the barriers to entry are far too high for anyone who is seriously in the firearms business to be willing to take the risk.

For someone to do so, they would need the cash for design, testing, meeting regulatory requirements, marketing, dealer network development, and advertising. The largest expense will be in design and development. New tools will be needed, rigorous testing, insurance that the design does not breach existing patents, etc. This cost would be large, and with such a small market in Canada would not be worth the expense.

Unless the company had REALLY deep pockets, and was willing to invest a lot of time and money in developing civilian sales overseas, and could display to potential investors that there is an untapped market, with the potential for large returns, it isn't going to happen.
 
OneNationUnderThor said:
I agree. It is not going to happen unless the Canadian Forces wants to invest in a new rifle platform, and there is some kind of government subsidy for a Canadian company to design and build one. Then there might be a hunter/sporter version to help offset the R&D costs.

That seems exceptionally unlikely for a number of reasons.

It also might happen if I become exceedingly wealthy and can afford to bear all the research, design, and manufacturing costs up front. That would be awesome--then I could be like the XCR guy.

But that also seems exceptionally unlikely.
Click to expand...

That is unlikely to happen as well. Look at the history of CF small arms procurement. ALL of our small arms, with the exception of the ill fated Ross rifle, were foreign designs manufactured under license.
 
Oxblood said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is time for an economics lesson.
This cost would be large, and with such a small market in Canada would not be worth the expense.

Unless the company had REALLY deep pockets, and was willing to invest a lot of time and money in developing civilian sales overseas...
Click to expand...
Here is my suggestion...
What about a COOP style based business ?
CGN could help for funding....who knows ???
i can put 150 $ on the table, the price of a regular restaurant diner.
A black rifle COOP...good idea or not ?
 
I guess because there is no market for the futuristic firearms in Canada... In the US they are trying to market to all sorts of military and law enforcement agencies... To get them out of Canada into the US would mean hoops and cost.. Cheaper to manufacture them in the US.. Ever wonder why many of the European LEO's and Armed Forces carry Sig's and HK's...
 
Here is my suggestion...
What about a COOP style based business ?
CGN could help for funding....who knows ???
i can put 150 $ on the table, the price of a regular restaurant diner.
A black rifle COOP...good idea or not ?
Click to expand...

I'm going to stab myself in the taint.

I'll put $10,000 on the table, no sh!t, it's a drop in the bucket though, and doesn't mean anything unless you can sell it to the US.

Problem will be that when it finally gets developed the majority of those Canadians who "comitted" will piss and moan that there is something wrong with it and won't bother buying it.

Am I gonna have to start my own business
Click to expand...

Yes.

I did when I was unhappy with the state of tactical gear in Canada.


I just want us, fellow Canadians, to have options and most important; to have the option to buy Canadian.
Click to expand...


This would be great if Canadians as a whole followed through on what they say. They don't.

I could get an order from an American, tell him it will take 2 weeks or 1 month or 1 year and when he says "I'll take it" you can bet that 1 year later that client will buy that item.

Do the same thing with a Canadian and 90% will back out when you tell them it has arrived.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom