Korean War: Russian version
- Thread starter snowhunter
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Brutus
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Operation Downfall was the planned invasion of the main Japanese islands.
This was to be, a two part operation that was believed to stretch into 1946. Truman had his fellas punch the numbers and allied estimates for battle casualties would have been in the millions with the Japanese totaling tens of millions.
Sf is not far off the mark, and I for one, agree with his opinion too. I personally would not call Truman's advisers d&d folk myself.
This is the source of our information regarding this subject.
That was a bluff that really couldn't be called by the Japanese, smellie.
IIRC the initial invasion of Japan wasn't scheduled until spring of '46, when British and Canadian troops would have been available. There was enough time to build some more atomic bombs to drop on Japan.
Emperor Hirohito saw that his people couldn't resist the power of the atom bomb, and that his only ally that was even working on it (Germany) had surrendered unconditionally to the Allies. It was Hirohito who told the Japanese government (he was much like the Queen in the UK today, greatly respected but without any real power) that he believed that the war should end to spare the Japanese people greater suffering. As the Emperor of Japan was seen as the Son of God, the Japanese listened to what he had to say (even today, Emperor Akihito is still seen as the Son of God in Japan. It's the way the Japanese do it), even though he could not legally interfere with the operations of the Japanese government.
IIRC the initial invasion of Japan wasn't scheduled until spring of '46, when British and Canadian troops would have been available. There was enough time to build some more atomic bombs to drop on Japan.
Emperor Hirohito saw that his people couldn't resist the power of the atom bomb, and that his only ally that was even working on it (Germany) had surrendered unconditionally to the Allies. It was Hirohito who told the Japanese government (he was much like the Queen in the UK today, greatly respected but without any real power) that he believed that the war should end to spare the Japanese people greater suffering. As the Emperor of Japan was seen as the Son of God, the Japanese listened to what he had to say (even today, Emperor Akihito is still seen as the Son of God in Japan. It's the way the Japanese do it), even though he could not legally interfere with the operations of the Japanese government.
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Don't tell that to the Americans... they're convinced the won the war by themselves.
My blood boils everytime I hear that. The Americans did virtually nothing to contribute to the victory in Europe. It was largely won on the backs of Ukrainians and Russians -- and they have my respect.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
In 1941 the Soviet airforce was virtually annilated with many pilots without any aircraft to fly. First the UK supplied the USSR with Hurricanes followed by Spitfires, Kittyhawks, Airacobras, totalling 4300 a/c.
When the USA entered the war a further 10,000 combat planes were provided to Russia. Now these were not top of the line planes.
But 100 Soviet pilots became combat aces in lend-lease aircraft from the allies.
Have you not ever heard of the Murmansk Run?
Forty convoys, with a total of more than 800 ships, including 350
under the U. S. flag, started on the Murmansk run from 1941 through
1945. Ninety-seven of those ships were sunk by bombs, torpedoes,
mines, and the fury of the elements. Were the Murmansk convoys
instrumental in keeping Russia in the war? They carried more than
22,000 aircraft, 375,000 trucks, 8,700 tractors, 51,500 jeeps, 1,900
locomotives, 343,700 tons of explosives, a million miles of field-
telephone cable, plus millions of shoes, rifles, machine guns, auto
tires, radio sets, and other equipment.
Now the USN was woefully short of escort vessels, but the term Liberty Ship came from somewhere right?
US Merchant Marine casualties numbered 9,497 in WW2. This was the most dangerous service to do one's duty with. The percentage of deaths were higher than any other branch of military service.
Get your facts straight.
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
At least someone was willing to sell them war materials.
And these vital goods just didn't appear at the snap of your fingers.
Western allied civilian seamen paid with their lives to prop them up.
They were treacherous scum, they sat back and watched as the hitlerites destroyed western europe, they laughed when hitler ripped up neutrality deals with Belgium and Holland (Maginot line would have worked if the Belgians didn't trust hitler). They #####ed when hitler invaded their country and demanded a "Second front now". They put pressure on Britain who stood alone and in great peril and Churchill scolded stalin about his deal with the nazis which would have given British properties to the Soviets. They sat back and let nazis murder Poles in Warsaw. #### them.
MapleSugar
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I don't know what you've been smoking, but Brutus pretty much said it all.
All the Allies would have been royally f**ked without the "Arsenal of Democracy" supplying them with much needed weapons, equipment and raw material.
They lost a lot of good men too opening up the "Second Front" that Stalin had been squawking for ever since Hitler decided to betray their friendly little pact.
the U.S. could have just as easily turned their full attention to their greatest menace, Japan, while pulling their support for Stalin and letting him pound sand while Hitler overran his Motherland.
It would be kind of like how the Soviets screwed the Poles with the Warsaw Uprising.
But no, the Americans adopted a Germany First policy that divided their force.
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Fast forward 45 yrs after ww2, Ronald Reagan kicked commie Russia's ass and dismantled its little evil empire in Europe. Sorry to bring you the bad news The Kurgan . Guess your fearsome commie heroes didn't live up to your respect and lost all their marbles to the US in the end.
The Soviet Union paid in gold for SOME of the equipment they bought from the US, but by no means did they pay for all of it. A huge amount which was contracted was paid for by the taxpayers of the United States.
This does not even count material which was just plain GIVEN to them.
Nor does this account for huge quantities of stuff which was LOANED and never given back. THIS little end of things includes shipoads and shiploads of military and commercial goods AND the ships themselves. Russia was running a fleet of Liberty ships into Vancouver in the 1960s, taking Western Canadian grain, flour and butter (at 1/3 of Canadian prices) to Russia after Khrushchev's "New Lands" project hit the dust. The Liberties came to Canada to load for the run to Vladivostok while newer Soviet ships picked up American cargo in the USA to keep the Russian people eating. Why? The Liberties had never been paid for and there were court seizure papers out on them in the US!
Among the little things sent to help poor Russia were millions of pounds of copper, more millions of pounds of steel, two complete steel mills, one made-in-London $5 Dunhill pipe (Comrade Stalin had expensive taste in pipes), enough tobacco to smoke-screen the entire Eastern Front, hundreds and hundreds of articles of antique American and European furniture...... and half a pound of thorium, 50% of the world's supply. Russia didn't stop spying on the US for one single minute; even when their backs were to the wall, they stole everything they could get their hands or their eyes on, including almost the total technology of the Bomb.
Aircraft Repair in Edmonton was only one of many plants making, building and rebuilding aircraft for Russia. My father personally signed off several hundred P-39 Airacobras which the plant had returned to zero hours, then watched them all fly away, up the Alaska. I have photos here of a line-up of Airacobras in Edmonton, each one with a big red star on the fuselage. That was NOT a Canadian marking, folks.
Much of what actually went on has been soft-pedaled over the years. With the political atmosphere of the 1950s and 1960s, nobody wanted to get the Russians angry. That is one of the reasons no Canadian government ever asked for our 600 men back who the Soviets liberated in prison camps in Eastern Germany. They have never returned home. A generation of little kids suffered nightmares for years afterwards, thanks to those megalomaniac mass-murderers in the Kremlin.
But now we have glasnost and we have the perestroika and Russia has decided, in its friendliest woolly-bear fashion, to admit that they fought a war against us which cost Canada a lot of lives and evidently cost Russia 25,000 lives. Remember, the PERMANENT head of the UN military commission is a Russian: they had access to ALL the Korean War plans of the so-called "UN" generals..... until an American general said that enough was enough and refused to clear his plans with the UN. THAT was when our side stopped losing the war.
But Russia's going to tell the truth now?
Fine.
Let's tell ALL the truth.
.
And a quote to think on: "Truth is whatever advances the cause of Marxism-Leninism." Attributed to Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, Bank robber, mass murderer, Soviet Premier.
.
This does not even count material which was just plain GIVEN to them.
Nor does this account for huge quantities of stuff which was LOANED and never given back. THIS little end of things includes shipoads and shiploads of military and commercial goods AND the ships themselves. Russia was running a fleet of Liberty ships into Vancouver in the 1960s, taking Western Canadian grain, flour and butter (at 1/3 of Canadian prices) to Russia after Khrushchev's "New Lands" project hit the dust. The Liberties came to Canada to load for the run to Vladivostok while newer Soviet ships picked up American cargo in the USA to keep the Russian people eating. Why? The Liberties had never been paid for and there were court seizure papers out on them in the US!
Among the little things sent to help poor Russia were millions of pounds of copper, more millions of pounds of steel, two complete steel mills, one made-in-London $5 Dunhill pipe (Comrade Stalin had expensive taste in pipes), enough tobacco to smoke-screen the entire Eastern Front, hundreds and hundreds of articles of antique American and European furniture...... and half a pound of thorium, 50% of the world's supply. Russia didn't stop spying on the US for one single minute; even when their backs were to the wall, they stole everything they could get their hands or their eyes on, including almost the total technology of the Bomb.
Aircraft Repair in Edmonton was only one of many plants making, building and rebuilding aircraft for Russia. My father personally signed off several hundred P-39 Airacobras which the plant had returned to zero hours, then watched them all fly away, up the Alaska. I have photos here of a line-up of Airacobras in Edmonton, each one with a big red star on the fuselage. That was NOT a Canadian marking, folks.
Much of what actually went on has been soft-pedaled over the years. With the political atmosphere of the 1950s and 1960s, nobody wanted to get the Russians angry. That is one of the reasons no Canadian government ever asked for our 600 men back who the Soviets liberated in prison camps in Eastern Germany. They have never returned home. A generation of little kids suffered nightmares for years afterwards, thanks to those megalomaniac mass-murderers in the Kremlin.
But now we have glasnost and we have the perestroika and Russia has decided, in its friendliest woolly-bear fashion, to admit that they fought a war against us which cost Canada a lot of lives and evidently cost Russia 25,000 lives. Remember, the PERMANENT head of the UN military commission is a Russian: they had access to ALL the Korean War plans of the so-called "UN" generals..... until an American general said that enough was enough and refused to clear his plans with the UN. THAT was when our side stopped losing the war.
But Russia's going to tell the truth now?
Fine.
Let's tell ALL the truth.
.
And a quote to think on: "Truth is whatever advances the cause of Marxism-Leninism." Attributed to Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, Bank robber, mass murderer, Soviet Premier.
.
That’s a little twisted. It’s the victors that write history not the truth. The West hoped that the Nazi‘s were going to deal with the Russians and treated Stalin as such. They could have made a deal with him but they treated him like #### and then to turn around and cry when he signs a deal with the Nazi’s? Henry Ford who was a Nazi him self did a lot to support Hitler and his war machine is conveniently forgotten
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=4368
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20090802/ai_n32402433/
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Did you just fall off the Turnip Truck along with a few others????
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Better Dead than Red!
