No. 4 manufacture date inquiry

Perhaps the original date was removed when the rifle went through FTR in 1951.
If you can't find it, it is likely gone for good.
 
No.4Mk1/2 means it started out as a No.4Mk1 and was refurbished and modified to a Mk2 type trigger attachment, which was a post-WWII modification. It's a Long Branch, and they switched from the original No.4Mk1 design to building the No.4Mk1* spec fairly early in the war, so that narrows down your original production date. You can find those dates somewhere on the net.

When a No.4Mk1* was modified to the Mk2 trigger attachment it was indicated as Mk1/3. The bit where it says "(F)FTR" means Factory Thorough Repair, i.e. refurbished to new specs with new replacement parts as necessary, and it was done at Royal Ordnance Factory Fazackerly - that's the "(F)" - which was near Liverpool in England. As tiriaq said, the "51" is the year it went through FTR.
 
Unfortunately, the S/N won't help. Long Branch serial numbers started at 0L1 and kept going in sequence. They were/are related to the number of rifles made, not the date of manufacture. Your's would be the 20,609th one made.
 
Pictures would help

Henry The Yellow Dart said:
Recently purchased a Lee Enfield No. 4 with the following marks on the receiver:

/51 LB20609 No. 4 MK1/2 (F)FTR

From what I can tell it's factory refurbished, but I can't find the original year of manufacture.

Thank You.
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A Long Branch serial number is generally in the form xxL###x with the first two numbers starting at 01 and the L by itself identifying the Long Branch Arsenal. The last four numbers are also part of the serial number.

Your serial number does not fit that pattern.

Pictures of the left side of the receiver with the markings would help.
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date of manufacture

You might find the date on the barrel, IF the barrel has not been changed during the FTR.

You will have to remove the forestock. CAREFUL HERE. To remove the forestock, you will have to unscrew the cross bolt that is at the rear of the forestock, near the back of it, above the trigger/trigger guard. If you do not, you might wreck your forestock.

The date of barrel manufacture was usually stamped on the barrel, just ahead of where it screws into the action. Usually a two digit date (eg. 43).
,
 
I'm going to take a wild guess at this one

Seems obvious that its a Brit manufacture from the serial number and I beleive that Maltby made the most No1 without * rifles. I dont have my serial number list here but I would put the odds in favor that its a maltby as they tended to have very poor markings :D
 
Sounds like a Maltby serial number. A No. 4 Mk1* would be designated a No. 4 Mk1/3, while a No. 4 Mk1 would be a No. 4 Mk1/2. There are only a few hundred (by extrapolation) Long Branch No. 4 Mk1/2's.
 
I don't have my work in front of me, but the idea (not original to me) is
based on the 4.1 odd million No. 4's that were made, by manufacturer, divided among the 350,000 Mk II conversion programs conversions, with the percentage of the Long Branch No. 4 Mk 1 being about 2% of the Long Branch production of 960,000, comes up with the SPECULATIVE and EXTRAPOLATED figures of just a few hundred Long Branch No. 4/2's being produced. I think the number is less than that, based on two additional factors 1) Most Long Branch rifles were retained for Canadian use and the British army didn't own that many to convert, especially the rare 1941 LB, 2) nationalism/pride, in that given the choice of a British rifle vs. another (US or Canadian), the British rifle would be picked for conversion first. (This is just a nswag on my part).
This is anything but scientific, but a fun exercise to find a way to gauge the rareness/value of a particular type of rifle. Your mileage may vary. :cheers:


Beater said:
how do you figure there are only a few hundred LB #4 Mk 1/2s ?
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bgcameron said:
While we're on this topic... At the Vic gun show a few weeks ago I saw a sportered No4 Mk1/2 (F) that had the Mk1* bolt release. Wierd?
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Was it a Savage or Long Branch? There are a few known examples of this, mostly on 1942 [Savage] rifles. I think this was done/happened during the conversion process from the Mk 1 to the Mk1*. It would be worth having in the collection!
As an aside, I have never seen a 1942 Long Branch No. 4 Mk1. (no star). I'd appreciate pictures if you've seen one!
 
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No.4 Manufacture Date Inquirery

Have a look at Ian Skinnerton's book, "The Lee Enfiled Story". It should be of great help to you.

The book covers everything about the Lee Enfield Family of Rifles. It even gives you the production figures per month from Long Branch, Savage, BSA, etc.

It helped me with the research on my BSA-Shirley No.4Mk1, which was FTR'd in 1949 at Fazackerley ... /49 (F) RTR.

Have a look at this book. It should help you out a lot.

Also have a look at the left-hand side of you butt stock ring. There should be some stamp markings there. These should give you some information on when, who, where and what serial number the manufacture gave your rifle. If your bolt is original to your rifle, the matching serial number will be located on the aft-face of the bolt arm; as it was with mine. This is standard practice.

Best of luck to you. Let us know what you find out.

Rgs...kajn65 (Keyan)
 
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