Here's a question for you folks...

CarbineOne said:
Read closer. I will run it folded DOWN if it is easy to actuate i.e. Magpul MBUS. Running both sights up creates excess clutter. When I run guns with 1-4x scopes i.e. Trijicon AccuPoint, having the front sight up interferes with the sightpicture a fair bit, thus I will prefer them folded. On a red dot, I do not mind the front being up, but I will prefer them down in order to ge the clearest sight picture possible.

Having sights available under my scope is great. You can't exactly run fixed irons with a scope.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about options. You CAN, but you don't HAVE to.
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I fully agree with your post(although I used to run my accupoint with fixed FSB with no issues but an uncluttered FOV is nice). Your reasons behind why and how you run your sights make sense. The issue is with folding sights(mostly the front) being up all the time. Why would someone choose to remove or otherwise cover(cut and hide) their standard FSB only to throw on a folder and leave it up? If the front isn't an issue then run a fixed or leave the standard FSB on it.

NorCalDustin said:
On my Rimfire AR I don't mind running Rear MBUS.... For my front sight's ALL of my AR's have fixed A2 front sights. As I see it, the MBUS' have been as reliable as any other rear sight I've had INCLUDING a Troy Rear Folding BS which was about $200.

I'm not saying I don't like my Troy Rear Folding BS... Because it really is a great sight... But, when I consider that the MBUS is just as good, maybe better because deployment under stress is easier, and that the MBUS ran me < $40... It's hard to say the MBUS is unreliable.

As far as fixed sights being more reliable... I used to think so, which is why for a very long time I only ran fixed irons. After having run folders for a very long time as well... I believe that both types are just as reliable and even on my .223 AR's I would not be apposed to replacing any of my carry handles, A1.5's, or other fixed irons with folders (even an MBUS).


When I said that an optic will ultimately fail sooner or later, I'm talking from pure experience. Sooner or later your battery's are going to die, maybe your optic will die, etc... Something on it will fail.

I've yet to see any iron sights need battery's replaced, I've never seen the electronics in any set of iron sights fail, I've never seen the glass on a set of irons crack, I've actually never seen any sort of failure with ANY set of irons to date. When you consider that I've seen EVERY other part in an AR fail at one point or another, that's something. I still maintain that when the dust settles, your Irons are probably going to be the last thing to fail on your gun.

The first thing will either be your optic or something to do with your bolt.
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I also agree with what you're saying with one exception. Plastic sights have no place on a firearm, ever. I've seen no less than three MBUS sights either split or strip the mounting bolt right out of the box. I have yet to see or hear of a quality metal(aluminum) folding sight fail. I'm a huge fan of always having irons on a firearm as well. They're usually very simple and very robust.

TDC
 
CarbineOne said:
Gas mounted flips are obsolete. Get a full length free floated hand guard over a low pro gas block.
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I've tried those the full length free floated hand guards... I think they're good... But I like the Daniel Defense FSP rails that go around the A2 front sight...

Purely personal preference, most people will probably prefer what your saying though :)



TDC said:
I also agree with what you're saying with one exception. Plastic sights have no place on a firearm, ever. I've seen no less than three MBUS sights either split or strip the mounting bolt right out of the box. I have yet to see or hear of a quality metal(aluminum) folding sight fail. I'm a huge fan of always having irons on a firearm as well. They're usually very simple and very robust.

TDC
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Well, a front MBUS sight will do that if put on the gas block... I've never seen that happen otherwise (though that is after mounted)... Which it says in the directions not to do anyway.

Still... My only defense for the MBUS over anything else is that is extremely easy to deploy under extreme stress. Troy Industry's also makes some good backup irons... They are extremely expensive though.

Fixed... Meh... Fixed or folding... I dont really care. Irons just work.
 
TDC said:
I fully agree with your post(although I used to run my accupoint with fixed FSB with no issues but an uncluttered FOV is nice). Your reasons behind why and how you run your sights make sense. The issue is with folding sights(mostly the front) being up all the time. Why would someone choose to remove or otherwise cover(cut and hide) their standard FSB only to throw on a folder and leave it up? If the front isn't an issue then run a fixed or leave the standard FSB on it.



I also agree with what you're saying with one exception. Plastic sights have no place on a firearm, ever. I've seen no less than three MBUS sights either split or strip the mounting bolt right out of the box. I have yet to see or hear of a quality metal(aluminum) folding sight fail. I'm a huge fan of always having irons on a firearm as well. They're usually very simple and very robust.

TDC
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I don't think I have a single gun/upper that I would run with fixed front sight. Perhaps if I had something I ran dedicated irons with, or dedicated red dot (for instance an M4 flattop).

I have yet to have an issue with the 3 MBUS sights I use. I've heard plenty of stories of people mounting them on gas blocks and melting them though. But that's just a matter of RTFM.
 
NorCalDustin said:
I've tried those the full length free floated hand guards... I think they're good... But I like the Daniel Defense FSP rails that go around the A2 front sight...

Purely personal preference, most people will probably prefer what your saying though :)




Well, a front MBUS sight will do that if put on the gas block... I've never seen that happen otherwise (though that is after mounted)... Which it says in the directions not to do anyway.

Still... My only defense for the MBUS over anything else is that is extremely easy to deploy under extreme stress. Troy Industry's also makes some good backup irons... They are extremely expensive though.

Fixed... Meh... Fixed or folding... I dont really care. Irons just work.
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I have yet to find a BUIS that was difficult to deploy. I will give you that the MBUS is probably the fastest folding BUIS to deploy.

Starscream said:
I'd do it just to piss you off. :D:D:D:D
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That's a fair answer, although it wouldn't piss me off just make for a good head shake and eye rolling.;):rolleyes:

CarbineOne said:
I don't think I have a single gun/upper that I would run with fixed front sight. Perhaps if I had something I ran dedicated irons with, or dedicated red dot (for instance an M4 flattop).

I have yet to have an issue with the 3 MBUS sights I use. I've heard plenty of stories of people mounting them on gas blocks and melting them though. But that's just a matter of RTFM.
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Hopefully your experience with the MBUS continues to be positive. Having seen and heard of several cases of stripped mounts and/or split mounts, I'll steer clear of them. The other issue that concerns me is the cold. Minus 20 or better and a drop onto the sights can't be good for it. I also have issue with the sight not locking in the up position. With just a spring keeping the sight deployed, I see room for failure.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Hopefully your experience with the MBUS continues to be positive. Having seen and heard of several cases of stripped mounts and/or split mounts, I'll steer clear of them. The other issue that concerns me is the cold. Minus 20 or better and a drop onto the sights can't be good for it. I also have issue with the sight not locking in the up position. With just a spring keeping the sight deployed, I see room for failure.

TDC
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I've shot with them in -15ish and had no issues. I inspected them for cracking or stress marks before and after, nothing special to report.

I've never shot with them in -40... I suppose that would be my next test.
 
CarbineOne said:
I've shot with them in -15ish and had no issues. I inspected them for cracking or stress marks before and after, nothing special to report.

I've never shot with them in -40... I suppose that would be my next test.
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Did you try dropping the rifle on the sights? Not that its something I would really enjoy doing, but it is a real possibility. Under normal use(not mounted to the gas block) I would imagine they will work just fine. Its hard hits and falls that concern me. And the spring used to keep it deployed.

TDC
 
TDC said:
I have yet to find a BUIS that was difficult to deploy. I will give you that the MBUS is probably the fastest folding BUIS to deploy.
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Meh... Some have small buttons, or have 2 buttons to press, or have 1 button that sticks sometimes, then there are ones that have issues folding, I've had some get cold enough to start to freeze/become harder to actuate... Dunno...

Many of those issues, I have to admit, can be cured by keeping the sight cleaned and by removing any factory lube... When i go shooting usually though, there's lots of dirt, sand, and lots of other crap that gets in the gun. The sights are very susceptible to things gumming them up because of the very tight tolerances.

Dunno... That's just my experience.
 
NorCalDustin said:
Meh... Some have small buttons, or have 2 buttons to press, or have 1 button that sticks sometimes, then there are ones that have issues folding, I've had some get cold enough to start to freeze/become harder to actuate... Dunno...

Many of those issues, I have to admit, can be cured by keeping the sight cleaned and by removing any factory lube... When i go shooting usually though, there's lots of dirt, sand, and lots of other crap that gets in the gun. The sights are very susceptible to things gumming them up because of the very tight tolerances.

Dunno... That's just my experience.
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Good points...

TDC
 
TDC said:
So I guess its safe to say that those who run optics(of any sort) with the iron sights flipped up(front, back or both) clearly don't understand the concept behind folding sights. Just making sure there isn't some valid reason behind the practice, before I continue to shake my head and laugh at those that do it.

TDC
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What if someone got a deal on an AR that had no fixed sights...came with folding sights and wants to use the gun with say an eotech he already owns and wants the sights up in case the eotech goes down.

This guy dosen't want to go buy fixed sights to mount on the AR as the folders work just as well...
 
ABCZAR said:
What if someone got a deal on an AR that had no fixed sights...came with folding sights and wants to use the gun with say an eotech he already owns and wants the sights up in case the eotech goes down.

This guy dosen't want to go buy fixed sights to mount on the AR as the folders work just as well...
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There's nothing wrong with folders and nothing wrong with BUIS as a back up sighting system(hence BUIS). If a guy decides to run his BUIS up, why buy folders in the first place? In your case the rifle came with folders. In that case I would sell them as they fetch more money than fixed irons and reinvest in a set of fixed irons. The example you post is one of the exceptions. There is no shortage of threads/pics here and on other forums of guys buying a stock carbine, cutting or replacing the gas block/FSB, throwing a FF rail on it and a set of folders just to run them up.


QUESTION TWO

Another question for you folks. Why do people cut or replace their gas block/FSB, bolt on a rail system and folders, while leaving the gas block exposed??? Call me crazy but if you're going to opt for a rail system and folding sights, it might be a good idea to cover and protect your gas block and gas tube while increasing the railestate/handguard.

(Dieselgeek top of the page)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=510264&page=11
(Tron0100 bottom of the page)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=423762&page=73

Here's a link to another confused builder(Dahm, about 3/4 down the page). This guy runs an extended length rail system( I believe it is a DD Omega X rail 12") that extends beyond a factory FSB, then removes the FSB and runs a low pro gas block that is completely exposed.:confused:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=467549&page=96

Here's another(quentin 3/4 dow the page). Railed gas block with a fixed front sight?? Why not stick with a factory FSB?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=510264&page=8


TDC
 
Mall Ninja's... Uh no, because some people cant stand the front sight sticking up and do not have the proper block to remove/replace it... OR they dont want to spend the extra cash to replace it with another kind of gas block.
 
bigdawg said:
Alot of stuff people do to there guns are just for fun and does't need a real reason or logic.
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That doesn't make sense. Regardless of whether or not modifying your rifle is fun,(which it is) the primary reason behind the mod is to improve function or solve a problem. How does removing/replacing the stock FSB and running flip ups on a rail achieve either?

The flip ups serve a purpose, some don't like looking at irons when using a reddot, and those with magnified optics feel they cloud the view. The option then is to run a folding front(and subsequently a folding a rear). You could change the FSB/gas block to a folding FSB/gas block, or you can run a rail system. If you choose to run a rail system, why not run a longer rail to cover and protect the GB and gas tube? Greater area for the support hand and accessories, increased sight radius(if you believe that matters) and a protected gas system. Does this make sense?

TDC
 
bigdawg said:
Alot of stuff people do to there guns are just for fun and does't need a real reason or logic.
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Actually this makes a lot of sense. When you consider the actual reason for the design behind a lot of these firearms we always speak of as well as the purpose some were intended to be used for, you could basically say that most of us on here have firearms "for fun" and fun only......
 
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