Whadya do?

joe-nwt said:
Devil's advocates turn.

While you own the land, you do NOT own the deer. You have no say legally in what particular animal gets taken after permission is granted.
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Absolutely right. He was 100% legal. That isn't the issue and I have no recourse about the deer after the fact other than to not trust him to stay true to his word. Had he done I had asked he could have hunted here in the future and filled his meat tags as there are several dozen doe/fawns that move through every day. If he really wanted to shoot bucks he could have gained permission from the leaseholder to the south of me where those deer are bedding down during the day. The leaseholder gives out permission like treats at Halloween. As it is, he took a quality buck against my wishes and it now appears screwed my chances for the few days left of the season. He apparently (according to the wife) fired at the herd several times and since that night the deer on the property have become completely nocturnal -- not showing up on the camera until at least 1 hour after legal and all movement stops by 5 a.m.. Lesson learned the hard way I guess.

I do have lots of say legally though in regards to future access.
 
he took a quality buck against my wishes
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I guess I'm the only one here that has a problem with this statement. You have no claim whatsoever to the deer on your property other than access to said deer. If you want to increase your chances of a "quality buck", then deny access. But nobody in Canada can claim any wild animal until they have harvested it.
 
joe-nwt said:
I guess I'm the only one here that has a problem with this statement. You have no claim whatsoever to the deer on your property other than access to said deer. If you want to increase your chances of a "quality buck", then deny access. But nobody in Canada can claim any wild animal until they have harvested it.
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My land my rules. He could have shot that buck anywhere else and I would have no problem with it. When I grant access and I put conditions on that access whether it be "don't shoot coyotes" "don't shoot bucks" or "don't s**t in my garden" I expect those conditions to be adhered to. It's not about the damned deer but about someone taking it upon themselves to not abide by conditions they agreed to. If he'd said that he couldn't abide by my terms then I could have refused access. That is my right.

I don't own the deer. I do control your privilege to shoot at them on my land and I can give and take that privilege as I see fit.
 
sjemac said:
My land my rules. He could have shot that buck anywhere else and I would have no problem with it. When I grant access and I put conditions on that access whether it be "don't shoot coyotes" "don't shoot bucks" or "don't s**t in my garden" I expect those conditions to be adhered to. It's not about the damned deer but about someone taking it upon themselves to not abide by conditions they agreed to. If he'd said that he couldn't abide by my terms then I could have refused access. That is my right.

I don't own the deer. I do control your privilege to shoot at them on my land and I can give and take that privilege as I see fit.
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EXACTLY!!!!!

joe-nwt said:
Devil's advocates turn.

While you own the land, you do NOT own the deer. You have no say legally in what particular animal gets taken after permission is granted.
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Actually he does. If you don't/can't abide by the conditions of access, you shouldn't agree. IF that specific deer was put "off limits" while the "friend" was hunting on the homestead, and the "friend" shot it anyway, the dumba$$ broke the agreement and should be shown the road.

If you pulled a stunt like that with me, it would be the last time your a$$ would hunt my land PERIOD!!

-Jason
 
thebuckhunter said:
EXACTLY!!!!!



Actually he does. If you don't/can't abide by the conditions of access, you shouldn't agree. IF that specific deer was put "off limits" while the "friend" was hunting on the homestead, and the "friend" shot it anyway, the dumba$$ broke the agreement and should be shown the road.

If you pulled a stunt like that with me, it would be the last time your a$$ would hunt my land PERIOD!!

-Jason
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I don't see a problem with conditions of access right up to the point of where stipulations are put in place as to exactly which deer can be shot. That's all. To do so indicates you have more of an interest in the deer other than access. And that is simply not true.

I'm sure that we wouldn't have that problem, I'm sure you would have the deer you didn't want shot clearly marked. Perhaps with a ribbon around it's neck. ;) Actually, I'm pretty sure I would pass on your generous offer to allow me to shoot those "lesser" deer on your property anyways. But thanks.:)
 
joe-nwt said:
I don't see a problem with conditions of access right up to the point of where stipulations are put in place as to exactly which deer can be shot. That's all. To do so indicates you have more of an interest in the deer other than access. And that is simply not true.

I'm sure that we wouldn't have that problem, I'm sure you would have the deer you didn't want shot clearly marked. Perhaps with a ribbon around it's neck. ;) Actually, I'm pretty sure I would pass on your generous offer to allow me to shoot those "lesser" deer on your property anyways. But thanks.:)
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The guy specifically asked to be able to hunt one of his antlerless supps. I specifically gave him permission to do only that. What don't you get? He essentially lied to get access and then did whatever the hell he wanted to anyway.

I hunt a farm where the farmer has specifically said he doesn't want the coyotes shot. I don't shoot the yotes even though it is legal for me to do so. Why? Because he granted me a privilege and put a condition on it that I happily am willing to meet. He doesn't own the yotes, but he certainly has the right to tell me not to shoot them. If I do shoot them anyway, he has the right to tell me to get the "f" off his land and never come back.

I'm the person who invested the money, time and work into my land to make it a place that wildlife wants to be. That benefits not only me but the hunters who hunt the other properties that those deer move through. They can shoot any deer they want once it steps off of my property. But on my land I get to decide.

Not a lot of private land in the NWT though is there? I understand your confusion with the concept.
 
You made a deal and he intentionally broke it. "just couldn't help it" is not an excuse.. he damn well could have, and wanted to push the boundaries..

I would say No in the future, but that's just me..
 
sjemac said:
Gave a good friend permission to shoot one of his supps on my acreage. I'm away last night and get a call from my wife just after dark asking what my buddy should do with his deers' guts. He shot two deer. Two? I ask.

She says , Yeah a small doe and a small buck.

Buck? I didn't say to shoot a buck.

Get back home. "Small" must mean a large 3-4 year old 4x4 to some people -- one I've been tracking on the trail cams for a month and had specifically shown and talked about to my buddy about leaving for a year when he'll be better.

Give an inch and have a mile taken.

Thinking that the home spot will have to be reserved for immediate family only in the future.
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Sounds like he shot a dandy - what did he score?? :stirthepot2: :D
 
He's youre friend... you cant let a good friendship go over a deer... after all it could have got run over by a truck, or killed by coyotes.
Or just simply moved on to the next mile or three by the time next years season comes around. Not to worry, another bigger buck could very well move in.

It also could have been mistaken identity... after all, they do look the same.:)

A good idea might be to only let youre son and his daughter hunt youre land next fall...
Just say youre keeping it off limits, so the kids can hunt it, that way youll look good and relations with friends will be acceptable.:)
 
sjemac said:
The guy specifically asked to be able to hunt one of his antlerless supps. I specifically gave him permission to do only that. What don't you get? He essentially lied to get access and then did whatever the hell he wanted to anyway.

I hunt a farm where the farmer has specifically said he doesn't want the coyotes shot. I don't shoot the yotes even though it is legal for me to do so. Why? Because he granted me a privilege and put a condition on it that I happily am willing to meet. He doesn't own the yotes, but he certainly has the right to tell me not to shoot them. If I do shoot them anyway, he has the right to tell me to get the "f" off his land and never come back.
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I'm not questioning the concept of giving someone permission to hunt, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that anyone has the right to grant permission for specific animals.

sjemac said:
Not a lot of private land in the NWT though is there? I understand your confusion with the concept.
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You know what? Some people may construe this as an insult. But I'll let it go. Yes I live in the NWT. But I own land in the south that I hunt deer on every year. Perhaps I even own more land than you do;), but that's irrelevant. When I let people hunt on my land, the thought never occurred to me to try and stipulate exactly which animals they can and can not hunt. Because they don't belong to me! Why can't you get that?;)
 
joe-nwt said:
I'm not questioning the concept of giving someone permission to hunt, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that anyone has the right to grant permission for specific animals.
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But as a land owner you do have that right because it is related to activities on your land which you control. You may not agree with it and may not like it but the landowner has the legal right to make all kinds of stipulations and create limitations to hunting on their land even if some of the activities they forbid are in fact legal. If a person doesn't like those rules, they are free to move on and hunt elsewhere.

joe-nwt said:
You know what? Some people may construe this as an insult. But I'll let it go. Yes I live in the NWT. But I own land in the south that I hunt deer on every year. Perhaps I even own more land than you do, but that's irrelevant. When I let people hunt on my land, the thought never occurred to me to try and stipulate exactly which animals they can and can not hunt. Because they don't belong to me! Why can't you get that?
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You have the right to let anyone shoot anything legal they want to on your land but that is simply your policy -- fair enough. If you are adhering to that out of a belief that you have no legal right to restrict what someone hunts as a condition of permission, you're wrong. If you're doing it because that is a personal belief of yours -- that's fine -- no arguments from me. Your land, your rules.
 
Good thing he was a friend or there may not be any deer left. :eek:


Your land your rules.

If you can't take advantage of your friends...well you know.
 
joe-nwt said:
I'm not questioning the concept of giving someone permission to hunt, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that anyone has the right to grant permission for specific animals.
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If I were hunting on your land, would you mind if I gathered some wood for a fire if I get chilled? No? that's good, because I'm really planning to take a couple log-trucks full of trees.

On your land you might tell me to close any gates that I open and if I"m quadding to stick to the roads and trails with the machine, and to walk if I want to go into the bush or fields.
Is it illegal to leave a gate open? Probably not most gates... Is it illegal, on private land, to rip a new road across an open field? I don't think so...

Your land, your rules.
 
Splatter said:
If I were hunting on your land, would you mind if I gathered some wood for a fire if I get chilled? No? that's good, because I'm really planning to take a couple log-trucks full of trees.

On your land you might tell me to close any gates that I open and if I"m quadding to stick to the roads and trails with the machine, and to walk if I want to go into the bush or fields.
Is it illegal to leave a gate open? Probably not most gates... Is it illegal, on private land, to rip a new road across an open field? I don't think so...

Your land, your rules.
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:rolleyes: I get the general permission part, OK? If I gave you permission to hunt deer on my land, that is all I expect you to do. Not gather firewood, shoot rabbits, leave your beer cans behind. The part I'm questioning is how I can have the right to tell you that you can only shoot bucks that have 3 tines on the left and 4 on the right. And only if they have a ribbon around their neck. Or any other stipulation that points to specific deer. Because I don't own the deer. I'm only granting access to those things I own, ie. my land.

Do you understand my point of veiw now?
 
joe-nwt said:
:rolleyes: I get the general permission part, OK? If I gave you permission to hunt deer on my land, that is all I expect you to do. Not gather firewood, shoot rabbits, leave your beer cans behind. The part I'm questioning is how I can have the right to tell you that you can only shoot bucks that have 3 tines on the left and 4 on the right. And only if they have a ribbon around their neck. Or any other stipulation that points to specific deer. Because I don't own the deer. I'm only granting access to those things I own, ie. my land.

Do you understand my point of veiw now?
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I know where you are coming from.....but the fact that you can't wrap your head around the concept doesn't change the fact that you are wrong :p

If you invited me to spend a couple weeks at your place on the condition I didn't #### your 18 yr. old daughter, and then I went ahead and did it anyway, how would that go? I mean...I *could* say that you invited me, and it's legal, and I just "couldn't wrap my head around you not wanting me to screw your daughter...she's an adult, you don't own her"....and then we'd be A-OK...right? ;)
 
Wrong Way said:
I know where you are coming from.....but the fact that you can't wrap your head around the concept doesn't change the fact that you are wrong :p

Blah, blah, nothing to do with the topic, blah,blah,......
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Legally, I'm right. I guess we are discussing morals here. As you appear to have none, I'll bow out of this thread as I doubt you will......

Thanks for the discussion to those that had something intelligent to say.:)
 
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