Newbie Help - Benelli MR1 or RA XCR?

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carykoechlin

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Hello everyone,

XCR in 7.62x39 or MR1?

I am looking to make my first purchase of a black rifle. I am a beginner shooter, and am looking for something to plink and possibly hunt varmint with. I chose these two options because they are non-restricted. This is my preference because I do not want to be restricted to only range use.

Price is an issue, and I would like to hear your thoughts about the price differences between these two rifles, and whether the xcr is worth the premium.

Any other advice, suggestions would be appreciated. I have not made up my mind yet, and I am hoping to use this to help make my decision.

If there are any users/owners out there of either of these rifles your input is valued, let me know your thoughts on reliability/accuracy/durability etc.
Thanks for your help.
 
Benelli vs. XCR

Nutnfancy offers an excellent review of the XCR and does a good job of highlighting its pluses and minuses. I would first consider your choice of caliber before choosing a weapon; .223 and .308 are both excellent cartridges and both excel in different areas. First I would decide which will best fulfil your intended purpose and proceed from there. Keep in mind that unless you have a supply of surplus ammo, .308 could become a prohibitive choice for target shooting. I have only ever handled the Benelli MR1 but it speaks to me so I decided to buy one. Bare in mind that the Benelli retails for about 1700 whereas the XCR is around 2300. I have heard a lot of reports of bad millwork on the XCR as well as hex bolts backing out which is something to consider. It is also reported to be sensitive to ammo. Hope this helps you make your decision. :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDT7yAmB6bI
 
Blue_Fish said:
Nutnfancy offers an excellent review of the XCR and does a good job of highlighting its pluses and minuses. I would first consider your choice of caliber before choosing a weapon; .223 and .308 are both excellent cartridges and both excel in different areas. First I would decide which will best fulfil your intended purpose and proceed from there. Keep in mind that unless you have a supply of surplus ammo, .308 could become a prohibitive choice for target shooting. I have only ever handled the Benelli MR1 but it speaks to me so I decided to buy one. Bare in mind that the Benelli retails for about 1700 whereas the XCR is around 2300. I have heard a lot of reports of bad millwork on the XCR as well as hex bolts backing out which is something to consider. It is also reported to be sensitive to ammo. Hope this helps you make your decision. :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDT7yAmB6bI
Click to expand...

I think he was asking about 7.62x39. My preference would be .223 for plinking and varmints though.
 
I'm not a fan of either of those choices.
Here's why:

1) XCR:
It's fairly expensive. If you factor in the optics for the Tavor it's very close in price. Also it's not much more for a Swiss Arms which I prefer. I didn't like the fit/finish when I looked at the XCR. The ergonomics were good, but the stock sucked. Also keep in mind we don't get that stock as a folder in Canada. Any changes to the stock will cost you more money. You can change calibers around which a lot of people like. I just like having another gun. The trigger is now good (earlier ones weren't). If this rifle was $1500 I wouldn't hesitate. Even $1700, but not at the current price point.

2) The MR1:
It looks cool, very Storm like. But... It's a shotgun stock. It goes too low. If you're only planning on using the ghost sightss then it's perfect. But mounting optics is awkward thanks to the stock and the hooded sights. Accuracy seems to be ok from the reports I've read. Although nothing earth shattering. Breakdown appears to be a pain. Unknown how the trigger is. Have read some reports of corosion in the interior but who knows. Maybe they didn't clean it since it's hard to disassemble? Another failing is the charging handle being on the right. This is also a flaw with the Swiss arms. But for a new rifle I wouldn't expect this, especially not for a new black rifle.


Before buying either of these, I would buy a Swiss Arms, Tavor, or even a used HK SL8 (Which also has some flaws and requires significant money to modify to G36 coolness. The Swiss Arms ends up being cheaper if you want to convert a SL8).

If you field strip these rifles you'll clearly see the difference. The Swiss Arms and Tavor internals are far better machined. The Swiss Arms is like a fine watch. Both are also civilian models of actual combat rifles.
 
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I don't think that many of us would argue the superiority of either the Tavor or the Swiss Arms. If you were going to spend that kind of money it would also be wise to consider the FNH FS2000 or even the KEL TEC or SCAR (if it ever makes it here). When you compare the price point between a Swiss Arms and a Benelli, You are looking at a $1800.00 price difference; enough to buy 2 MR1s. The Swiss Arms is an amazing rifle, I would definitely buy it if I had the money but I think it probably exceeds both the price point and the needs of what you are looking for. The MR1 and the XCR are both pretty common rifles, I would recommend that you handle both of them and see what you think. Unfortunately for us there is a minimal selection of rifles available in the non restricted black category.
:cheers:
 
The Swiss Arms is definitely a nice rifle, but you are limited in what you can do with it if customizing a rifle to your liking is where you want to go. I have my XCR where I like it for now, there is a new Vortex scope coming out and that should finish it quite nicely.

IMG_2704Medium.jpg


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Get an XCR they are pretty darn fun. Not really that expensive when you consider that it is a Monolithic, Railed, Piston Driven System. The fact that you can later swap out parts with AR15 stuff is just a bonus. The ergos are great and don't let anyone convince you that they can't shoot. Here is a pic of a 10 round group I shot. Not bad at 100m with iron sights...

PICT1143.jpg
 
get a sl8 accuracy is king and right now their are quite a few for sale in the EE. lots of after market for later but right out of the box is a beauty to shoot.
 
I'm not really into customizing that much. Although I like the additions on your XCR. I have the same things on my AR. Magpul pistol grip and Magpul CTR stock. The stock was an option when I bought my AR.

I really wanted to like the XCR. On paper it's almost the perfect rifle especially in Canada. It can be made to look very cool. I saw a tan one that looked very nice. Part AR, part AK. If it was under $2000 I would own one of the new ones with the decent trigger. I like that you can get them in .223, 6.8 and 7.62x39. I like that they are non restricted and I even like the heavier barrel. Plus the ergonomics for the controls are excellent.

What I don't like about it. I don't like that the upper/lower doesn't open all the way like an AR or Swiss arms when you take one pin out for cleaning. I don't like the amount of hex screws etc holding onto critical parts that have been reported to come loose. I'm also not a fan of being part of the ongoing testing trials. Although I'm willing to take the chance on a new product. At this point I think they have the bugs out, so it would be ok. Now here's the real thing I'm not too thrilled about.

The price:
XCR: PRICE: $2299.00 for .223 Add $100 for the 6.8 or 7.62x39
$119 for NEA folding AR stock adapter
$ 130 for Magpul CTR stock

The magpul Miad I believe is the model of pistol grip. I had an AR10 come with one and will be changing the pistol grips on my other AR rifles to it. A very worthwhile upgrade.

I would expect the rifle to be around $2600 by the time you add a decent stock and the adapter (You need the tube for the stock as well, and some CTR don't come with the rubber so there's a few bucks more. So $2600 is my rough estimate.

Meanwhile you can find a Swiss Arms on sale brand new for $3050. Which includes an exceptional folding stock. Or the Tavor and sell the M21. The price difference is really very small when you work out the actual costs.

While I like the 6.8 option. The RFB will be the same price as the XCR in the 6.8. I'll be going with the RFB.

The MR1 has price going for it. Although again I would pick up a used SL8 (and I've avoided this rifle) over it. The main issue I have with the SL8 is that you will eventually want to turn it into a G36. This will very quickly make the SL8 price tag exceed the Swiss Arms price.

The MR1 has a niche in the price category. If you're only using the provided sights then you'll probably be very happy. It's when you try and add optics that things go downhill. Plus the ergonomics are flawed.

For the future: I consider the SCAR and ACR lost causes due to price/availability. Good for collecting and bling factor but I don't see them being for the general shooter anytime soon, if ever. My hopes are for the Beretta ARX 160. If Beretta makes a semi auto model this could be the rifle Canada has been waiting for. We'll see.
 
There is one other option that I haven't mentioned. It is without a doubt the best bang for the buck. However it's not a true black rifle. Then again really the MR1 looks more like a shotgun conversion.

The rifle I would consider for cost/performance is the Ruger Mini 14 target model. They have one in the hogue stock if you want the black rifle look. Stainless steel semi auto action. Accuracy has been good. The stock trigger does however suck, but you can have a gunsmith fix it for fairly little $. I had this done to mine. Also you can have an adjustable gas regulator put in. I'll eventually have this done to mine. You can find these new for under $1000. If you want to look more A-Team tactical you can put in a 20/5 round mag if that floats your boat.

getimage.cfm


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Epoxy: You have a little bit of false economy. Get an AR15, Swiss Arms, whatever and throw a monolithic upper on it - you will find the price is a little bit more then 2600. VLTOR anybody? A mini 14 - doesn't have freefloat upper and no rail accessories - really it isn't comparing apples to apples. You may not like the XCR - that is great, I won't try to convince you that your opinion is wrong but your numbers aren't exactly reflective of the value of what you are getting. Example:

Monolithic Upper AR15 - Say VLTOR 1000-1500 depending on how you get it configured, Lower with 2 stage NM trigger group CTR - 6-800 depending on your options. Throw a set of back up sights and you are easily in XCR country. Considering that the XCR is non-restricted it is quite easy to see why somebody would want an XCR. Comparing a stock AR15 (i.e. Armalite with 20" bbl for 1500-1600 bucks) isn't a really fair comparison, there are no accessory rails and if you were to just add a standard RAS you are at 2000 bucks. Throw in a match trigger and bump it up some more...

Just my 2 cents.
 
FNAR might be a better choice than the benelli in 308, if you reload 308 is tolerable otherwise it gets very expensive very fast. You really need to consider ammo price.

I can shoot 300 rounds of 22 ammo at the range or plinking to your 20 rounds of 308. Trigger time really counts when it comes to shooting and 22's are overlooked far too often, nothing like trigger time when you first get into the sport. I would spend my money on a Thompson Center R55 22lr and buy a $1000 optic which i could later transfer to the rifle of choice, and run 1 case of ammo through it 5000 rounds then sell the rifle (which is super accurate, match barrel) for a few hundred less than I paid for it THEN and only THEN would I go to larger caliber. You will truly have hours of fun and learn much more about shooting than you would by going strait to a larger caliber
 
Glock4ever said:
Epoxy: You have a little bit of false economy. Get an AR15, Swiss Arms, whatever and throw a monolithic upper on it - you will find the price is a little bit more then 2600. VLTOR anybody? A mini 14 - doesn't have freefloat upper and no rail accessories - really it isn't comparing apples to apples. You may not like the XCR - that is great, I won't try to convince you that your opinion is wrong but your numbers aren't exactly reflective of the value of what you are getting. Example:

Monolithic Upper AR15 - Say VLTOR 1000-1500 depending on how you get it configured, Lower with 2 stage NM trigger group CTR - 6-800 depending on your options. Throw a set of back up sights and you are easily in XCR country. Considering that the XCR is non-restricted it is quite easy to see why somebody would want an XCR. Comparing a stock AR15 (i.e. Armalite with 20" bbl for 1500-1600 bucks) isn't a really fair comparison, there are no accessory rails and if you were to just add a standard RAS you are at 2000 bucks. Throw in a match trigger and bump it up some more...

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I could care less about a Monolithic upper. To me this just means you need to go with higher rings if mounting a scope. But if that's a factor to you then yes it should weigh in the decision.

The mini 14 was more in comparison to the MR1 which was also listed. Considering it's under $1000 while the MR1 is $1500, I think it's a good and fair comparison.

As for the AR comparison. Think Stag. 8R $1785 or Stag 2T. Less money for the very accurate 6R. Not bare bones AR rifles. If the AR wasn't restricted we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The AR would win out hands down for cost/performance.

Now as to the free float barrel. A DI semi or bolt action benefits from this the most. Mini14 targets are reported to be sub moa rifles. Swiss Arms, don't have free floating barrels either. If it uses a piston system the harmonics from the piston neutralize a lot of the advantages of a free float barrel. This is one of the reasons why it's much harder to accurize piston system semis versus a DI AR.

It's not a matter of me not liking the XCR. It's a matter of not liking what it is for the price. If the mini 14 was 2K I'd say the same thing. At 1K it's a hell of a bargain. If the XCR were $1500-$1700 I'd be all over one. Pretty much if it was less than 2K. I could justify some of the shortcomings. It's all about trade offs. I feel for the price there are too many trade offs. Same with the MR1. The MR1 could have been perfect. Unfortunately there are too many trade ffs. That $1500 is better spent towards something else.

Just my opinion.
 
It doesn't matter if you care or value a Monolithic Upper or not - it has a value. Choosing to pretend it doesn't exist is not a fair cost analysis. An LMT MRP is in the same ballpark feature wise and it is not possible to get one for under 2k. There is a cost to producing that type of upper whether YOU value it or not. Like I said, I am not trying to convince anyone to get one but you telling people that an XCR is not "worth" the money is based only on what you choose to value and that is fine for you. But the cold hard facts are that the XCR/AR15/whatever with a monolithic upper is going to cost more to manufacture then a normal AR15. If the XCR didn't have a mono upper, I probably wouldn't be keen on getting one either as the value isn't there such as your example of the Mini 14. I was in the middle of VLTOR build and by the end of it I was realized that I was pretty much in the same ballpark if not more then an XCR and I could only take the VLTOR to the range. Like I said before compare Apples to Apples and you will see that the XCR isn't that bad of a deal. Look at the LMT MRP which is basically a restricted version of the XCR but with a better stock and grip and you will see what I am talking about.

LMT MRP:
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=29&cat=LMT

RA XCR:
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=8&do=3&mcid=1&scid=12&pid=51

Comparable features yes?

Glock
 
carykoechlin, my personal recommendation would be to do exactly what dizzy said. I've taught several people to shoot over the years and nothing beats a good rim fire for training. Even when I'm competing in center fire matches and practicing a butt load I still shoot approximately 5-10 times as much rim fire as center fire. Hey, I'm a cheap ass.

Something a lot of people don't know, a 22 launched out to 200 meters has approximately the same trajectory as a 308 launched out to 800 meters but with more wind drift(give or take). If you can't do it with a friendly (in many ways) 22 you sure as hell won't be able to do it with a .........(insert shoulder killing, confidence wounding elephant hunting caliber).
 
Glock4ever said:
... Like I said before compare Apples to Apples and you will see that the XCR isn't that bad of a deal. Look at the LMT MRP which is basically a restricted version of the XCR but with a better stock and grip and you will see what I am talking about.

LMT MRP:
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=29&cat=LMT

RA XCR:
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=8&do=3&mcid=1&scid=12&pid=51

Comparable features yes?

Glock
Click to expand...

You aren't comparing apples to apples.

Here's an apples to apples comparison: Norinco AR $700, Colt 6920 $2600 ish
Same feature set on paper. Very different quality level.

If the XCR and the LMT were both in the same classification I would venture to say that the XCR would be a very difficult sell.

Hopefully some day we'll get a chance to compare the XCR to the ACR, the CZ S805 and the Beretta ARX 160. Then it will be apples to apples.
 
I have the RA XCR. I very much like it. It shoots very well, I like how it fits me, I like the stock, I like the design. Its easy to clean, its accurate, it breaks down quickly. Its a very good rifle. Here's me enjoying it:

xcr3.jpg


xcr1.jpg
 
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