The term Tokarev "Clone"?

[Teapot]

The TT-33 was designed in the USSR. After the Great Patriotic War licences were granted to friendly nations to produce this pistol. The pistols produced by the state arsenals of the various countries were Tokarev TT-33's and not clones of them. The TT-33 was not the product of just one firm in the USSR but, of many. Tokarev designed it and Tula made it but they didn't have proprietary rights over it as did, say Colt with their 1911.
If it was manufactured at Tula is it a real TT-33, but if made at Izhvesk and other state factories is it a clone? No, they are all real TT-33's including the Chinese pistols. The North Korean produced pistol is a variation of the TT-33 as it has many differences.
I just hear people say a Chinese clone of a TT-33. What they have is a TT-33. I have an Izhvesk produced TT-33 made in 1942. It is still a Tula Tokarev-33 not a IT-33 Izhvesk Tokarev-33
Just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[robin2y]

I call 'em variants...
R

 

[Teapot]

A variant is a form that differs from the original. How does a Norinco TT-33 or an Izhmash TT-33 differ from the Tula TT-33 apart from inspector proof marks etc.?
So these pistols are not variants of the Tula pistol at all so must therefor be TT-33's.
I was simply wondering why some people call them copies or variants.

 

[HONEY]

Do this also applies to 1911 guns , since other states and manufacturer besides Colt also make 1911 , they are all real 1911 , not clones or copies .

 

[sovereignright]

A variant is a form that differs from the original. How does a Norinco TT-33 or an Izhmash TT-33 differ from the Tula TT-33 apart from inspector proof marks etc.?
So these pistols are not variants of the Tula pistol at all so must therefor be TT-33's.
I was simply wondering why some people call them copies or variants.

Minor example would be the extractor retaining pin & other retaining pins. Chinese uses spring steel roll pins, whereas Russian uses solid dowel pins.

 

[blackout]

A variant is a form that differs from the original. How does a Norinco TT-33 or an Izhmash TT-33 differ from the Tula TT-33 apart from inspector proof marks etc.?
So these pistols are not variants of the Tula pistol at all so must therefor be TT-33's.
I was simply wondering why some people call them copies or variants.

Technically, the Norinco is the M213. But I don't want to nit-pick, I get what your saying

 

[robin2y]

A dictionary definition of variant: Something that differs in form only slightly from something else, as a different spelling or pronunciation of the same word.

Still think it is the best generic term.

R

A variant is a form that differs from the original. How does a Norinco TT-33 or an Izhmash TT-33 differ from the Tula TT-33 apart from inspector proof marks etc.?
So these pistols are not variants of the Tula pistol at all so must therefor be TT-33's.
I was simply wondering why some people call them copies or variants.

 

[SIGP2101]

The TT-33 was designed in the USSR. After the Great Patriotic War licences were granted to friendly nations to produce this pistol. The pistols produced by the state arsenals of the various countries were Tokarev TT-33's and not clones of them. The TT-33 was not the product of just one firm in the USSR but, of many. Tokarev designed it and Tula made it but they didn't have proprietary rights over it as did, say Colt with their 1911.
If it was manufactured at Tula is it a real TT-33, but if made at Izhvesk and other state factories is it a clone? No, they are all real TT-33's including the Chinese pistols. The North Korean produced pistol is a variation of the TT-33 as it has many differences.
I just hear people say a Chinese clone of a TT-33. What they have is a TT-33. I have an Izhvesk produced TT-33 made in 1942. It is still a Tula Tokarev-33 not a IT-33 Izhvesk Tokarev-33
Just thought I'd bring it up.

I can see your point. Lugers are also being made by so many different factories in Germany, Switzerland, and yet for the collectors all are originals. But in fact all of them made after 1908 are clones.