CF Holdings of Lee Enfields in the mid 1970s

[J0HN_R1]

This saddens me... I was a cadet shooter also, remembering vividly the smell of the Halifax Armories every month on "range-nite".

I also remember the few times going out with our affiliated unit, and going into the actual armoury to be issued my C7 (they had just came out).

Man-o-man, the C1 Sterlings/FN's/Enfields/C5/C9 mini-mi/Carl-G/etc... A collectors heaven...

 

[enefgee]

Decent No4's aren't too hard to find, in fact they're probably easier to get than a reasonable quantity of AIA's. Apparently AIA can sell as many as they can make in Australia, the AIA would allow the .303 round to be deleted from inventory, though. Also, I can't see the CF spending AIA type money on the Ranger program, they spend a lot of time telling Rangers they aren't soldiers, and they aren't partisans, they're .........guides - yeah that's it, in the age of satellite imagery down to 1 metre, on demand, they're guides. You'd figure they'd at least give the Rangers the credit they're due as Canadian feet on sometimes contested soil.

 

[Hawkshadow]

The AIA rifles are great, their biggest problem is weight. It is a fact, that Canada purchased a bunch of No4 rifles from India or Pakistan.

You're absolutely correct. A large portion of the Rangers' Enfields are POF or Ishapore. That's most likely because they're the "newest" original Enfields on the market.

Not sure when they were procured and at what cost... would be interesting to find out.

 

[stencollector]

Also, I can't see the CF spending AIA type money on the Ranger program, they spend a lot of time telling Rangers they aren't soldiers, and they aren't partisans, they're .........guides - yeah that's it, in the age of satellite imagery down to 1 metre, on demand, they're guides. You'd figure they'd at least give the Rangers the credit they're due as Canadian feet on sometimes contested soil.

A GPS or satellite photo cannot tell you how to survive -55 with high winds, or how to navigate on foot during complete whiteout. A satellite photo will not tell you how best to get your ice auger bit out of the frozen hole, or that bringing your carburetor for your skidoo into the tent at night is the best way to make sure it starts in the morning.

They are guides, and invaluable at that. It is certainly not a discredit to be acknowledged as that.

 

[Riflechair]

I was asked to "chime in".

we are in the process of sending all c no 7's and no 4's to the smelter. i think the ones already in dp form will be the last ones left. sad so very sad.

This does not make much sense to me as The No4Mk1 (and variants) is still on the scale of issue. I know the C1's were smelted but that is all I know. Although it sounds funny to say, smelting No4's (at this time) seems contrary to the CF assets and infrastructure policies. It does make sense to smelt or otherwise destroy anything beyond repair or has exceeded its effective service life (hopefully after serviceable parts have been salvaged).

I've owned one of the AIA rifles and I must admit it was fun, but in all practicality I sold it very shortly after aquiring it. I'd hate to pack it in the bush mind you for any period of time. The ballance was all wrong and the teak wood was just silly. Enfields are suposed to be easy to shoulder and practical in the field. The AIA seemed sufficiently robust mind you.

The new rifle has gone through a facilitated consultation process with select Rangers. I was lucky enough to sit in the room with the design experts and build a rifle with them based on our practical needs using an interesting Q&A electronic survey media system and remote voting on the options available. Afterwards we were able to contruibute specific information, recommendations and requirements that were missed by the survey. I cannot divulge what we recommended but I can tell you that this should be one hell of a rifle if they take the info we gave them and actually build it. In short we wanted a robust, simple and practical milspec built rifle capable of 180gr softpoint ammo. What we did not want was a civilian sporting rifle. The new platform will not be a target rifle, it will be an easy to maintain system designed to provide ample accuracy and reliability for decades of use.

Biggest question we had was whether or not practiical ammo would be available for dangerous animal defense. We didn't want 147gr Ball 7.62 NATO and the associated barrel twist of running lighter projectiles.

Will it be able to withstand the test of time that the lee enfield has? Who knows... I won't know until I get to fondle it.

Weapon Techs will need to be aquianted with something new Happy times... Finally I can get something rebarreled if required....

 

[Calum]

Hmmm it will be interesting to see what they bring out.

 

[ori1984]

Is the new ranger rifle going to be available for civilian use? If its still a bolt-action, I can't see any reason for it to become prohibited.

 

[Riflechair]

Is the new ranger rifle going to be available for civilian use? If its still a bolt-action, I can't see any reason for it to become prohibited.

If this ends up a scratch built rifle and not an off the shelf sporting rifle it will depend who the patent eventually belongs to. I suppose anything is possible I mean heck, where did the AR15 come from? Or for that matter can you not buy yourself a PGW Coyote now? I suppose it all comes down to whether it holds value or fills a niche in the market place eventually...

But initially it will unlikely be available outside the CF.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

It kinda makes you wonder what the engineers or whoever designs these things could do with the No.4 design. Use modern alloys, materials, techniques and see what the next incarnation of the Lee Enfield will turn out to be. Chamber it in 7.62 and issue the 180 SP ammo, use synthetic stocks in place of wood, machine the rifles out of more modern, materials. It would fit the list offered by Riflechair above. A strong, versitile rifle that will last for at least 50 years. It really does make you wonder.

As for the AIA, they are more of an Enfield style target rifle, not a service rifle.

Can you imagine the Rangers being issued updated, new mfg No.4's?

 

[chanman]

It kinda makes you wonder what the engineers or whoever designs these things could do with the No.4 design. Use modern alloys, materials, techniques and see what the next incarnation of the Lee Enfield will turn out to be. Chamber it in 7.62 and issue the 180 SP ammo, use synthetic stocks in place of wood, machine the rifles out of more modern, materials. It would fit the list offered by Riflechair above. A strong, versitile rifle that will last for at least 50 years. It really does make you wonder.

As for the AIA, they are more of an Enfield style target rifle, not a service rifle.

Can you imagine the Rangers being issued updated, new mfg No.4's?

You could take the AIA and put it in a synthetic stock or well... something lighter. Just about every thread I've seen on CGN has comments about how heavy the teak is.

Hmm... that doesn't match my recollection. I was in the Air Cadets (101st in Moncton) in the late 1980's and we still had fireable CNo.7's and No.4MkI*'s, though truth be told they were almost never used. For that matter we also had a few spent LAW launchers in the armory for show and tell - not sure why?

Interestingly, I did a LOT more shooting in the Boy Scouts - nearly every week. Mostly using ex-CF Cooeys and privately owned CNo.7's in the basement of Harrison Tremble High School. I'm told that range is now long since closed.

I'm with Claven. 819 North Delta Air Cadet sqn was shooting Anshutz and No.7's right up until I left in 2001, and they still have them in inventory. We shot at the old Richmond Rod & Gun and then switched to the range in New West.

195 Bicknell Sea Cadet corps was shooting as recently as 2007. I'm not exactly sure why they brought the DP rifles with them, but...

 

[HeliBif]

Not to threadjack, but I'm considering joining the Rangers in my area of AB. I should be attending the next meeting, but can any members on here PM me with some more info/positive reinforcement?

Cheers!

 

[RRCo.]

I cannot divulge what we recommended but I can tell you that this should be one hell of a rifle if they take the info we gave them and actually build it. In short we wanted a robust, simple and practical milspec built rifle capable of 180gr softpoint ammo. What we did not want was a civilian sporting rifle. The new platform will not be a target rifle, it will be an easy to maintain system designed to provide ample accuracy and reliability for decades of use...

Can we have a hint or two?

Detachable 10 round mag and unique to the weapon or common to other rifles?

 

[Riflechair]

I cannot divulge it sorry. Anyways, I don't want to mislead anyone. I canot verify if they have adopted any of our design recommendations. So mentioning anything here would just be peeing into the wind.