Shooting off-hand...

[Longshot]

The most fun I've had shooting a precision rifle offhand was at NSCC in 2009.We shot the sniper matches and the first match was at 100m. 10 6 second exposures of a figure 11 moving randomly between two bays of the butts. I shot it with a PGW Timberwolf .338L and ended with a 47/50.
When I'm training in the winter for service rifle almost ALL my practice with a .22 is shot standing.Anyone can shoot prone.Not everyone can even hit the target standing.

 

[Gunnerlove]

The most fun I've had shooting a precision rifle offhand was at NSCC in 2009.We shot the sniper matches and the first match was at 100m. 10 6 second exposures of a figure 11 moving randomly between two bays of the butts. I shot it with a PGW Timberwolf .338L and ended with a 47/50.
When I'm training in the winter for service rifle almost ALL my practice with a .22 is shot standing.Anyone can shoot prone.Not everyone can even hit the target standing.

I loved that Timberwolf.
The C3A1 w/10X unertl I switched to was a real handicap at 100m due to the field of view. Every round I fired hit a target, just not my target.

 

[Longshot]

That whole scope is a handycap!

 

[X-fan]

Perhaps it is just me, but I shoot best offhand with a 2.5X or so power scope.

My offhand target is a 3.5 inch steel ball set at 100 yards.
Some days I shoot 80% some days I don't want to talk about.
I shoot best with a well balanced 10-12 pound rifle.

Seems to me the Schützenfest record is .75" at 200 yards for 10 shots.
Way out of my league!

 

[Longshot]

That's under a half minute standing at 200m?
Seems pretty far fetched if you ask me but I suppose anyone can get lucky.

 

[rgv]

The key to offhand shooting is simple. To be a truly fine offhand shot you must be subconcious.
That basically means that there needs to be no conscious input from the shooter to break the shot.when the sight picture is corect the shot must break without you thinking about it.The shot must break
when the holding pattern brings your cross hairs across the right part of the target.A big part for people
wrap their heads around is to NOT try to make the holding pattern smaller.Don't fight it because you will not
win.Instead accept its size and just focus on breaking the shot at the corect moment.

I don't agree with that being absolute, though it works.

At least half the Masters I shot across-the-course HP (including myself) shot offhand using some variation of what David Tubbs describes as the 'approach' method, where you acquire the target within your natural point of aim, and when you decide, you 'drive' the sights into an x-ring sight picture and whack the trigger.

 

[Longshot]

Yeah there is the old see and snatch too.Might work fine for the relatively large targets in high power, but I think when your trying to drop all your shots into one hole,subconscious shots are the way to go.
Lanny Bassham agrees with me too.

 

[catnthehatt]

Yeah there is the old see and snatch too.Might work fine for the relatively large targets in high power, but I think when your trying to drop all your shots into one hole,subconscious shots are the way to go.
Lanny Bassham agrees with me too.

I think you will find that any of the better 300 meter INT'L or small bore match rifle shooters will also, Gary Anderson included!

Cat

 

[rgv]

Yeah there is the old see and snatch too.Might work fine for the relatively large targets in high power, but I think when your trying to drop all your shots into one hole,subconscious shots are the way to go.
Lanny Bassham agrees with me too.

no disagreement, you won;t find a UIT shooter doing the see & snatch, but the gear and environment are different as well, after all, XC-HP is the original Service Rifle competion

The key to offhand shooting is simple. To be a truly fine offhand shot you must be subconcious.
That basically means that there needs to be no conscious input from the shooter to break the shot.when the sight picture is corect the shot must break without you thinking about it.The shot must break
when the holding pattern brings your cross hairs across the right part of the target.A big part for people
wrap their heads around is to NOT try to make the holding pattern smaller.Don't fight it because you will not
win.Instead accept its size and just focus on breaking the shot at the corect moment.

how do the two emboldened quotes go together though? How do you focus on breaking the shot at the correct moment, without any concious input?

 

[X-fan]

That's under a half minute standing at 200m?
Seems pretty far fetched if you ask me but I suppose anyone can get lucky.

I got that info from a article be Ross Seyfreid.
Ross isn't one to BS so I Googled it and found a picture of the target!....It measures 0.727

Here is the write up.
http://schutzen.sdpcrs.com/bobtylershistory.htm

Not bad for cast bullets!

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I got that info from a article be Ross Seyfreid.
Ross isn't one to BS so I Googled it and found a picture of the target!....It measures 0.727

Here is the write up.
http://schutzen.sdpcrs.com/bobtylershistory.htm

Not bad for cast bullets!

What does this great historical target got to do with shooting OFFHAND?

Rowland shot it from a machine rest, using a .32-40 Pope barrell, says so right on the target.

Somehow this thread has gone of the rails. And Schuten style rifles for off- hand are certainly not practical for a hunting rifle, IMHO.

 

[Boomer]

how do the two emboldened quotes go together though? How do you focus on breaking the shot at the correct moment, without any concious input?

Focus on your sight picture, not the trigger; the trigger will look after itself. There are two types of break, the open ended break and the compressed break. The open ended break has the shooter gradually increasing pressure on the trigger until it goes. Because the pressure on the trigger increases gradually, there is no conscious input from the shooter, the rifle just suddenly fires. It should come as a surprise. The compressed break is similar but happens faster. Like the open break, the pressure on the trigger increases gradually but breaks in perhaps a 1-3 count rather than a 5-7 count. When you are focused on a wobbly sight picture you would choose the compressed break.

 

[X-fan]

What does this great historical target got to do with shooting OFFHAND?

Rowland shot it from a machine rest, using a .32-40 Pope barrell, says so right on the target.

Somehow this thread has gone of the rails. And Schuten style rifles for off- hand are certainly not practical for a hunting rifle, IMHO.

Machine rest....
If it seems too good to be true....

Offhand practice is offhand practice...
Hunting rifle, schutzen, black powder, pellet rifle, or (perhaps best) rimfire.
To me it matters little what I practice with.
At issue here is that we practice on level ground and perfect conditions at the rifle range....If you shoot deer there I suppose that is good.

If the ultimate goal is to be a better offhand shot in the hunting field then my suggestion is to take a rifle into the field and shoot offhand from all sorts of out of whack positions...If nothing else it will show you why we grab a tree, rock, stump, handful of grass, or whatever improvised position.
To me offhand is a last resort.

Most hunters have no idea as to how they can best use the environment around them as a quickly improvised field position. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys blow perfectly good opportunities when the perfect rest 5 feet in front of them.
IMHO from a hunters perspective this is a skill worth much more effort and practice than offhand shooting.

 

[rgv]

Focus on your sight picture, not the trigger; the trigger will look after itself. There are two types of break, the open ended break and the compressed break. The open ended break has the shooter gradually increasing pressure on the trigger until it goes. Because the pressure on the trigger increases gradually, there is no conscious input from the shooter, the rifle just suddenly fires. It should come as a surprise. The compressed break is similar but happens faster. Like the open break, the pressure on the trigger increases gradually but breaks in perhaps a 1-3 count rather than a 5-7 count. When you are focused on a wobbly sight picture you would choose the compressed break.

So which are you doing, holding small and going for a surprise break? or conciously trying to fire the rifle when the sight picture centers up?

I'm not trying to argue the merits of one over the other, I'm questioning how you can do both at the same time.

 

[dryfire]

Whether it's a long or short duration trigger squeeze - if it's conscious it will likely be at the wrong time. Probability of a conscious trigger release occuring concurrently with optimum sight picture is not great. To have the thought process of which trigger method to choose, it must be conscious.

One technique that is used by some is to preload the trigger until on the verge of release as the target is acquired. As the target picture is refined the shot releases. This may be interpreted as a slow squeeze. A 2 stage trigger also lends itself well to this. Still a tremendous amount of time is required to refine the technique.

 

[Longshot]

no disagreement, you won;t find a UIT shooter doing the see & snatch, but the gear and environment are different as well, after all, XC-HP is the original Service Rifle competion?

I think it depends on the style of shooting.I've tried see and snatch for service rifle and had some success with it.But then again the targets are big.

how do the two emboldened quotes go together though? How do you focus on breaking the shot at the correct moment, without any concious input

Yeah my statement was a little incorrct. As Boomer already pointed out finding the correct sight picture should be the only thing you are focused on.The shot should break when you see the correct sight picture as if the rifle fired itself.Its weird when it happens but with enough practice anyone can do it.

 

[Longshot]

I think for the service rifle type shooting I do there is a little of both actually. When you see the correct sight picture the rifle shoots itself, however the sight picture is only correct for a fleeting moment so the rifle must fire in order to put that bullet in the center of the target.
Now getting to that point you have three or maybe four options.
#1 snatch the trigger from a position of no slack taken up.
#2 snatch the trigger from a position of slack taken up.
#3 squeeze the trigger from a position of no slack taken up.
#4 squeeze the trigger from a position of slack taken up.

options 1 and 3 take too much time and are most likely to produce an off center shot.They both require conscious input to get on that trigger if you ask me.

option 2 could be viable but again any movement is likely to produce an off center hit on a target that is not forgiving enough.For hunting this could work pretty well close in and I suspect what most guys would use when presented with a fleeting target.Might still require a little conscious input.

option 4 is probably the best options for most target shooting applications in my opinion.A smooth ,slow, steady and SUBCONSCIOUS pull with the shooter focused on the correct sight picture is likely to produce the best results on an unforgiving target.

But that's just me

 

[SIGP2101]

How hard is it to shoot a "precision" rifle off hand and get "precision" results? I don't mean to troll or anything but out of all the guns I have owned I have only shot my SKS off the bench for about 20 rounds...everything else I have ever shot I was either standing or kneeling. I ask because I do not plan to ever really shoot off the bench other then to sight in a gun...because I like to shoot (in my opion) in real world conditions. So should I look at shooting something like a Stevens 200 (modded) for my range/hunting needs or if I get a "precision" rifle...can I achieve the accuracy I will want off hand?

I do not mind finding a tree branch to rest a rifle on or if I have the right setup to use a bipod in the field I just like the quickness of off hand shooting.

Thanks, UTAF

Air rifle guys doing it all of the time. It is funny to watch them hitting 60 centers in the row during the training. During competition it is more like 45-55 in a row. Keep in mind that bullet cal. is 4.5mm and center ring is 2.5 mm. Is it hard? try and tell us.