6mm BR Question

RockChucker

RockChucker

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Here are a few questions to beat up.
Anyone ever have a 6mm BR custom chambered rifle not shoot under .250" 5 shot groups @ 100yards?
It seems that with little load development and care in loading procedures they shoot extremely well with groups in the mid to low .100"s being possible.
Must be an inherently accurate cartridge.
Is it the case design, small primer use or just a by product of chamber specs vs. case dimensions ?
Come on lets hear your thoughts.

RC
 
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it has it's reputaion as the most accurate cartridge ever developed

thats all i know though never seen or shot one just read about it

i'm curious if anyone hunts with it

some info for you htt p://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbr/
 
Until recently, the 6BR was a wildcat so was typically found in custom rifles with quality barrels. A whole bunch of chamberings shoot as well as the 6BR in a wide range of formats.

The 6BR is a very nice case design and works well as a target rd. Offers a variety of effeciencies and just looks ###y BUT there are many other cartridges that shoot as well.

Bullets play a huge role in this too.

Boils down to barrels, and quality of installation. Then what and how you feed it.

If you want to see a 6BR not shoot as well, just grab a variety of factory rigs. I bet you will find some that will not hold 1/2 min. even with the best of components.

Jerry
 
broncoo said:
it has it's reputaion as the most accurate cartridge ever developed

thats all i know though never seen or shot one just read about it

i'm curious if anyone hunts with it
Click to expand...

Depends alot on the distance and game you are comparing.

For SR BR, the PPC family owns that title.

For 1000yd Unlimited BR, should still be the 300WM or similar case volume

For F class, depends on the distance and how much the wind is blowing but most F open shooters are gravitating to the 7mm's for longer matches.

Don't get me wrong, it does shoot very very well. I owned and shot a superbly accurate 6BR about a decade ago so am very familiar with this cartridge.

BUT there are many other options, DEPENDING on the game...

Jerry
 
6mmBR is now correctly known as 6mmBR Norma. This company was loading the 6mmBR round, developed by Remington, with long 107 grain bullets that require a longer throat and CIP advised that a new spec be registerd and hence the new name and spec.

I'm sure Obtunded will chime in, as 6mmBR guru.

By the way Ian, which reamer do you recommend for 105 grain bullets? Now have 26" Gaillard fat barrel.

Regards,

Peter
 
I have never found a centerfire cartridge that shoots as well as a 6BR Norma. It is inherently VERY accurate. It is easy to make work.

Now that lapua is making its brass with .012 necks, it has changed the "standard" for a no-turn neck to .268 or .269 with .105" freebore accomodating 105-108 grain bullets.

30 grains of varget, and if you aren't shooting bug holes, throw the gun away.
 
peterdobson said:
6mmBR is now correctly known as 6mmBR Norma. This company was loading the 6mmBR round, developed by Remington, with long 107 grain bullets that require a longer throat and CIP advised that a new spec be registerd and hence the new name and spec.

I'm sure Obtunded will chime in, as 6mmBR guru.

By the way Ian, which reamer do you recommend for 105 grain bullets? Now have 26" Gaillard fat barrel.

Regards,

Peter
Click to expand...

I always thought that the 6BR was a wildcat based on the 308x 1 1/2 Barnes. I think Remington just picked it up and marketed it, they had nothing to do in its development but decrease case capacity and make it suck. The Norma cartridge offers far superior ballistics, but I still don't know how Remington ####ed that up too.
 
mysticplayer said:
Depends alot on the distance and game you are comparing.

For SR BR, the PPC family owns that title.

For 1000yd Unlimited BR, should still be the 300WM or similar case volume

For F class, depends on the distance and how much the wind is blowing but most F open shooters are gravitating to the 7mm's for longer matches.

Don't get me wrong, it does shoot very very well. I owned and shot a superbly accurate 6BR about a decade ago so am very familiar with this cartridge.

BUT there are many other options, DEPENDING on the game...

Jerry
Click to expand...
X2
My 6mmBR shot super, even out to 1K, but not as well at that distance as my 6.5 cartridges.
Cat
 
Obtunded said:
I have never found a centerfire cartridge that shoots as well as a 6BR Norma. It is inherently VERY accurate. It is easy to make work.

Now that lapua is making its brass with .012 necks, it has changed the "standard" for a no-turn neck to .268 or .269 with .105" freebore accomodating 105-108 grain bullets.

30 grains of varget, and if you aren't shooting bug holes, throw the gun away.
Click to expand...

I remember when it was originally called the 6mmbr Remington and 22BR Remington?


I know you shoot 300+, but what do you expect at 100 yards?
.1, .2, .3?
 
DrawBlood said:
I always thought that the 6BR was a wildcat based on the 308x 1 1/2 Barnes. I think Remington just picked it up and marketed it, they had nothing to do in its development but decrease case capacity and make it suck. The Norma cartridge offers far superior ballistics, but I still don't know how Remington f**ked that up too.
Click to expand...

The cartridge was orig designed by Elgin Gates. Little was changed when Rem tried to make it work. Everything you could possibly do to screw up this project, they did.

They killed the BR family of cases which was derived from the 308BR case - a small rifle primered 308 case.

The case went dead in NA but was resurrected in Europe which explains why the case is now certified as the 6BR NORMA. This new case is not much different from the 'old' Rem/Gates design. Case capacity is very similar and the cases almost interchange.

It works and within is "obtimum" parameters, not much will touch it but we just don't have shooting games that the 6BR is dominant in.

As to most accurate Centerfire cartridge, I think you will find huge resistance that the 6BR wears that crown especially when its a 100/200yd game.

Even a golden oldie like the 222 Rem can put down some serious numbers.

In its orig attempt to displace the PPC, it failed miserably (but it had alot of help).

The BR case has spawned some dominant cartridges like the 30BR. The 7BR had its day in the sun and gave us the very unique XP100. The 22BR is such a cool wildcat and offers some very strong performance which should really excel from upcoming powders.

The 6BR is neither fish nor fowl. I recommend it alot and there is solid business surrounding components to feed this case.

But it is just one of many options depending on the game, distance and bullet desired to be launched...

Jerry
 
X-fan said:
I know you shoot 300+, but what do you expect at 100 yards?
.1, .2, .3?
Click to expand...

A picture is worth a thousand words. the 6BR with attention paid to precision reloading and in the hands of a capable shooter is capable of .1 groups.

This was a load development in -15 at 175M

laddertest.jpg




This was a 5-shot group at 125M

bestgroup-1.jpg




Here are a couple of 6BR groups for you... I am fortunate to live in the middle of nowhere. I can load develop off my back porch (and do) I have a target set at 125 and 175 meters.

These are not one-group-in-ten anomalies. Unless these results can be repeated, they mean nothing. The 6BR with a tuned load will easily shoot .1MOA groups. I am not inclined to want to keep or photograph them, as long as they confirm the group, I am happy.

I also have the ability to shoot 1700 meters between my neighbour's property. I have had a great deal of fun shooting my 6BR with Berger 105's and hitting my saw blade gongs at a mile. I need a whopping 72 minutes of elevation to do so, but they are stable.

I am seeking a change of shooting pursuits for next year and i really want to get into short range benchrest where gurus such as rpollock et al, call a .1 MOA group a disaster. I would like to do so with one of my 6BR's

Having said all that, the 6BR is untouchable in 300M F-Class with their tiny .4 moa target. It kicks butt. At longer distances where you have a 1MOA "5" ring, you can achieve success with just about anything you know ho to steer. At 900M, it is less about the bullet and more about the shooter/reloader.
 
Ian, I would take .1 moa groups all day long if I could get them. Lately they don't show up as often as I would like. For reference the winning group aggregates (average of 5x5-shot groups) tend to be in the mid .2's moa., at least at Rosebud. Your 6BR looks to be competitive as is.
 
I feel strangely aroused? :D
100yd BR is not for me, but that looks like it was shot out of a 6ppc. Though not the true realm of the 6br it could certainly hold an advantage on a gusty day.

I thought you would tell me to count on a tight 1/4 with the odd 0.1.

WOW!
 
Cartridge dimensions were standardized by the famous Mike Walker of Remington in 1978 and with the lead change became 6mmBR Norma in 1995. This has proven to be one fine round, one of the most succeesful in shooting history.
 
my 6mmbr is alittle picky on which powder it likes to shoot really well, if you dont use one of 2 powders it will just shoot barely under an inch, but if you you use one of the two it will be 1/2 an inch or less at 100 yards! this is with bullets 70gr and under as my gun is set up with a 1-13 twist.
 
I think I was the first person in Canada to chamber a 6BR; in 1979. I had the first reamers in Canada for both the 22 and the 6.
I have a short range BR rifle chambered in the original Remington configuration. I don't shoot short range BR nearly like I did thirty-some years ago but my impression is that it shoots as well as it would as a PPC.
If Remington had seen fit to produce formed 6BR brass from the outset, I have little doubt that the 6BR would have enjoyed far greater popularity and the 6PPC might not be quite so universally used today. When Remington started producing brass for the 7mm BR, they were halfway there.
There is little difference, dimensionally , between the later Remington BR cartridge (they lenghtned the cartridge by fifty thou in the mid-eighties) and the BR Norma. The primary difference is the use of a 1.5 degree throat in the Norma version vs a 3 degree throat in the Remington. Surprisingly, the parallel section of the throat (the lead) is slightly longer in the Remington version.
The BR cartridge is accurate for the same reasons the PPC is accurate. It is a small cartridge and as such, is easy to shoot. The brass is strong and capable of handling high pressures. The case capacity is close to ideal.
Although I shoot a 6BR (original spec) one on those rare occasions that I shoot a BR match, I always recommend a PPC for a short range rifle. I seldom shoot a BR at the longer ranges but that is also a reflection of my contrary nature. I know it would out shoot the rifles I use and I would score better with it but I figure, a real man doesn't take the easy way! Just a stupid one! Regards, Bill.
 
I have a Target similar to Ian's with a .088 4 shot group at 100m that I shot during barrel break in but I can't locate the picture I took.

15 shots at 300m in match conditions from my last 6BR:
KB9W3308-c.jpg


10 Shots at 300m in match conditions from my 1st 6BR:
P1010989-copy.jpg


P1010991copy-1.jpg


Any questions? :D
 
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