Thinking of Swiss Classic Green - Reloading?

Siggy Stardust

Siggy Stardust

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
Location
Fleeing the Regime
Hey, Gang!

Just a quick question to all those Swiss CG, Black Special and variants thereof owners out there...

I've been looking for YEARS at getting a CG and I think I'm finally within reach of being able to afford one. Disappointed to hear that the prices are supposed to be going up substantially sometime soon...

I did get a chance to shoot a CQB last summer and loved it! The only concern I have, however is the way these things absolutely CHEW brass - smacking the side of the receiver beside the ejection port and putting a large ding in the side of the ejected brass.

So my first question - does anyone actually reload the these damaged brass? Or is there some mod owners have discovered to remedy this issue? After finding out that there are actually two settings for controlling the amount of gasses in system, I wondered if the owner of this CQB I was shooting had it on the stronger setting, sending those brass 60 ft. after leaving the chamber.

My second question - I've seen on other threads here that some have a 1-7" twist while others have the 1-10". Which is better, and can you specify which one you want if you order one? Why the two different barrels?

It's just hard to justify the high price of the rifle if it's going to eat brass from expensive RUAG ammo that you can't even reload. For the price, would I be better off just getting a custom AR that shoots just as well, there are a million aftermarket parts for and I can actually reload for?

Any thoughts from anyone out there would be much appreciated! Have to admit - I'm feeling a little perplexed, but I've wanted this rilfe for so long and now I'm having some second thoughts... Feeding it is my primary concern.

Of course, if anyone out there has a slightly used CG they're looking to get rid of, it might change my thought process too! LOL!

HELP!
 
OK well for the brass issue, I agree the rifles are definitely hard on brass. It seems different rifles do different things. I've had a number of Swiss rifles and carbines over the last few years and some were harsher then others. They do fling the brass out quite far, even on the normal gas setting. There is no issues with reloading the dinged up casings.

Next, the original barrels were 1-10 twist and the newer ones are 1-7 twist. The advantage to the 1-7 twist rate is that it will stabilize everything all the way up to the heavy 77Gr bullets, while the 1-10 will prefer lighter bullets. I would recommend the 1-7. The easy way to tell (because there are no markings) is that all the 1-7 Twist barrels on the rifles and carbines have threads just inside the flash hider for BFAs.

Lastly, DO NOT buy one brand new. Look in the EE for good deals. The last two Swiss rifles I bought (Carbine & Full size) were both around $2600 all in. If you buy from the stores, you will pay whatever the price is at ($3299 or something) PLUS tax which is like an additional $400 bucks and then potentially shipping. Save yourself the money and shop around. If you absolutely must buy new, I think P&D had a sale on and the rifles were $2900 or so.
 
Gas settings - Position one is for normal operation, position two is for adverse conditions which will give it even more gas. It is supposed to be left on position one. These things throw brass into next week that's the way it is.

Barrels - 1/10 is the Swiss spec for 63gr GP90. 1/7 is NATO spec. My 1/10 shoots 55gr very nicely. The 1/7 is best to stabilize bullets heavier than 63gr.

I don't reload for this rifle as mine shoots really well with cheap stuff (lucky me).
But I know plenty of guys here do and will help you out with that topic I'm sure.

As for if they're worth it, best rifle I've ever owned, period.
 
spent a few winter nights resizing the cases, they resize fine, one in 50 is junk, won't be able to get many more than 4 or 5 rounds out of the brass. have to take a little more time when reloading, not a big deal. No way to avoid the carnage.
 
HI there... I have reloaded for the Swiss Arms Classic green trying to get a sub moa load... but did not get there... I loaded over 800 rounds last summer... I agree with dizzy... Most resize fine but a few have the rims folded over so they are junk... its usually only about 1 or 2 %... The nice thing about the swiss is that the mags will accept much longer OAL than the normal AR mags...

So you certainly can reload Swiss shot brass.. and mine threw the cases 12 paces to the right and 9 paces (yds) forward... Oh yah.. put a piece of velcro on the receiver so your finish does not get bashed up with the brass as it ejects...

RDG
 
rdgietz said:
HI there... I have reloaded for the Swiss Arms Classic green trying to get a sub moa load... but did not get there... I loaded over 800 rounds last summer... I agree with dizzy... Most resize fine but a few have the rims folded over so they are junk... its usually only about 1 or 2 %... The nice thing about the swiss is that the mags will accept much longer OAL than the normal AR mags...

So you certainly can reload Swiss shot brass.. and mine threw the cases 12 paces to the right and 9 paces (yds) forward... Oh yah.. put a piece of velcro on the receiver so your finish does not get bashed up with the brass as it ejects...

RDG
Click to expand...

Try H322 and 52-53 gr match bullets. I shoot .56-.75 MOA on average with my swiss arms. Brass is not an issue.
 
Wow!

Many thanks for the prompt replies here gents! I think I've learned a lot about owning a Swiss CG already! I am on the verge of getting one here now. I'm only left with a couple minor questions before I "pull the trigger" so to speak...

Angry, you mentioned that the 1-7" twists are given away by the flash hider being threaded itself? And pardon my ignorance, but I have to ask what a BFA is...

Also, if the 1-10"s and the 63gr. RUAG are the Swiss standard and were designed to work together, is a 1-7" critical? Not sure what the standard weight for NATO bullets is, but how often would one be shooting anything heavier that the 63gr.? Is there a distinct advantage to using the 75gr.? Would one only see the advantage of the 1-7" when shooting bullets heavier than 63gr.?

The only reason I wonder this is because it would seem that the 1-10"s are much easier to find while the 1-7"s appear to be a much rarer commodity.

The other question I had was about the FLAT TOP as opposed to the more common indexed rear sight. Specifically, has anyone out there had any experience using the flip up rear peep sight on the flat top, or been able to compare it to shooting the standard rotary peep.

The only reason I ask is that I will probably be shooting with open sights for some time but would like the option to put a scope on it down the road. If the open sights on the flat top are fine, then I could probably save the $300 and 1 lb. for the scope rail later and put that $$ towards a better scope.

Sorry for all the questions and if it seems a little nit-picky, but money is still an object for me and like getting married, you like to make sure you get what you want and get it right the first time so you only have to do it once! LOL!

Also, just to put it out there, what's ###ier - a Classic Green or a Black Special?
 
rdgietz said:
Oh yah.. put a piece of velcro on the receiver so your finish does not get bashed up with the brass as it ejects...
Click to expand...

It's a gun...it's meant to be shot...
Unless you want it to be a safe queen, then I guess you can do that.

The previous owner of my Black Special put the velcro on (it was a safe queen). I took it off.
 
My experience differed. my 1/10 twist CG would not properly stabilize the 69gr smk's and im a decent shot (not perfect but decent) and a meticulous reloader. I had a ruger mini 14 target that i could easily shoot .75 moa groups with. when i went to the CG they were like 4 inches :( Im about to try the prvi 62 grain pills... if they are unsuccessful i will sadly go to the 52-53 hpbt'

I forgot to add, i love my swiss arms and it is definetly on my "never sell" list!
 
Siggy Stardust said:
The only reason I ask is that I will probably be shooting with open sights for some time but would like the option to put a scope on it down the road. If the open sights on the flat top are fine, then I could probably save the $300 and 1 lb. for the scope rail later and put that $$ towards a better scope.
Click to expand...

Staying with the sights is no problem (Diopters). These rifles have some of the best iron sights going. Here's a 200m group shot prone with irons with my Classic Green.
9.jpg
 
May have missed it but didn't see this q. answered for the OP:
B-lank
F-iring
A-ttachment
(It goes on the end of the bbl and forces some of the gas into operating a semi's action.)
 
Ahhhh... Thanks for the interpretation, Canuck! Don't think I would've gotten that one on my own! LOL!

J996 - Thanks for the pic; that's pretty impressive, alright. What kind of ammo were you shooting there? Have you ever used the flip up sights on the flat top?

I was also wondering what the difference is (diopter sights) between the two blades on the front sight that you can flip back and forth. Is one for longer or shorter ranges?
 
Was using AE.223J Tac. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522819&highlight=swiss+arms

I have never used the flat top version. The flip up blade on the front sight is for night shooting (has tritium dot) and when up sits in front of the standard front sight.
 
Siggy Stardust said:
Angry, you mentioned that the 1-7" twists are given away by the flash hider being threaded itself? And pardon my ignorance, but I have to ask what a BFA is...
Click to expand...

As far as I know, only the 1-7 barrels have the internal threading. Thanks to a previous post, BFA = Blank Firing Attachment.

Also, if the 1-10"s and the 63gr. RUAG are the Swiss standard and were designed to work together, is a 1-7" critical? Not sure what the standard weight for NATO bullets is, but how often would one be shooting anything heavier that the 63gr.? Is there a distinct advantage to using the 75gr.? Would one only see the advantage of the 1-7" when shooting bullets heavier than 63gr.?

The only reason I wonder this is because it would seem that the 1-10"s are much easier to find while the 1-7"s appear to be a much rarer commodity.
Click to expand...

The last four or five Swiss rifles I have bought have been 1-7 twist barrels. I think they are fairly common place now. I disagree with GT. Why limit yourself by choosing 1-10. I know it's not a HUGE deal but I think it better to have more options in case you'd like to shoot heavy rounds later.

The other question I had was about the FLAT TOP as opposed to the more common indexed rear sight. Specifically, has anyone out there had any experience using the flip up rear peep sight on the flat top, or been able to compare it to shooting the standard rotary peep.

The only reason I ask is that I will probably be shooting with open sights for some time but would like the option to put a scope on it down the road. If the open sights on the flat top are fine, then I could probably save the $300 and 1 lb. for the scope rail later and put that $$ towards a better scope.
Click to expand...

The flat top is really nice for optics. Not only do you not have to worry about the ass end of your scope clearing the rear sight but the 6mm integral rail is much lower then the 14mm high B&T bolt on rail. The down side to the flat top is the sights suck. They are nowhere near as good as the heavy duty rotary diopter sight on the standard version.

The front is a fine flip up blade and is easily snapped off with rough handling. I had one rifle arrive with the front broken (presumably in transit) because it was left in the up position. The rear is a small folding leaf sight that buries itself in the rail when folded and is a pain to dig out when needed, especially with gloved hands. Not the best sights.

Of course, you could use optics on the standard model. The downside to this is that unless you are using a really low mounted optic (Aimpoint, scout type scope etc), you usually require a cheek piece to achieve a proper cheek weld. The cheek piece is a few hundred dollars too. Unless you are cool with Airsoft knockoffs. As well, as you stated, you obviously require some sort of bolt on rail, which costs around $150 bucks. So the cost does add up.

Personally I don't like having my irons at one height and my optic at another. This is not conducive to developing muscle memory and good shooting techniques. My solution will be to use a flat top model with flip up AR15 sights. This will require a higher stock (or cheek piece) and for this I will be using a particular AR stock adapter. This will not only put the stock at the correct height for my sights, but will also allow me to adjust the length of pull and still retain the folding capability for transport and storage. That's my project I have on the go right now.

Here's a side by side shot of a flat top carbine and a standard rifle:

PC150001.jpg
 
I LOVE mine - it is my favorite by far.

Also - the regular diopter sights don't prevent you from mounting a scope - it just needs to be a bit higher. This is with a Larue quick release mount, which are hard to get and very $$$, but american defense stuff is much easier to come by and is easier on the wallet.

Here is mine with a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 on it.

DSC00021_2.jpg


The SIG official cheek piece is pretty $$$ as well (as is everything associated with the SAN rifles), but i've heard people use fake ones designed for airsoft with equal success.

Good luck getting your classic green - the EE is definitely the way to go - it's where I got mine (thanks Ben ;) )
 
My 2 cents on a couple of things.
I have the 14.3" green carbine with 1 in 7 twist. Personally I think the sights are part of the Swiss Arms experience. If you are absolutely going to go with a magnification-type scope (beyond 3 or 4 power), and intend to always shoot it like that, then look at the flat top. Otherwise I would get the sights. They also work very well.

When I got mine a couple of years back I tried various different optics, ACOG, EOtech (which I fortunately have on other rifles so I didn't have to buy them to do the test), but was quite unsatisfied with them. The main problem.... they sit way too damn high and render the sights useless dead weight. On the recommendation of some of the guys on this sight I went to the Aimpoint Micro T1 on the Kyle rail. The main benefit of it? It co-witnesses with the diopter. I don't think that can be said about any other optic. The benefit of the dot vs. just the sights is that it makes it a lot more "idiot proof". Irons only work properly if your head is in the right place. Having a proper cheek weld helps too, etc. But the dot is just a dot. Within the range that the dot is sighted in for, the bullet hits where the dot is, no matter how sloppy your technique was on that particular shot. To me that has a lot of value.

The only real downside of the Micro T1 is, obviously, no magnification and no real prospect of a magnification set up with this rifle. I tried mounting the Micro on my Swiss at the extreme front end of the rail, but didn't like it and moved it back pretty much right away.

On the issue of reloading, one thing I was going to add in was... it has been my experience that some rifles, including my AR can be somewhat picky with reloaded ammo, and you need to be very thorough in your case prep (or you can end up with the action getting stuck in the closed position, typically). This is not the case with Swiss Arms though. They are not picky at all. The action is very "robust" to say the least. Jams or malfunctions of any kind are not something you are likely to experience, reloading or not.

T1Micro.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom