PRE 64 M70 vs NEW M70???

As to the differences the new 70's are longer ,the later versions have one piece bottom metal.And I believe they improved the gas handling and the bolt handle is attached not one piece like the pre 64.
The SC. version also has the new trigger.
Also the non featherweight pre 64 has a fourth screw that attaches the forend to the barrel.
 
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I take it that I'm the OP (origional poster?). Anyway, Yes, I'm looking for a 30-06. Swampy has one on the EE and currently I have first dibs on his 1963 good condition gun Pre 64 M70. I want a bolt rifle because my brother and I are getting into reloading this Christmas and my 1.5" MOA 1968 Bar Safari isn't an ideal bench gun. That being said, I realize that the guns I had mentioned aren't bench guns but I just want something that can shoot sub-MOA in the off season and one that I can take hunting. I'm also pretty fussy about a good smooth tough action like that of a Sako but can't really afford a Sako. I have fondled many different guns in the gun shop and a pre 64 super delux at a friends house. The ones in the store just didn't feel that solid to me. My brothers Sako and my buddies pre 64 however, did "feel solid" especially the actions. What is the new M70 like compared to those two previously mentioned in regard to the action? The local gun shops don't have any new M70s. The sako that I'm looking at is something llike $1750 out the door which I thought is a pretty dam good deal for a brand new sako. If the pre 64 or the New M70 can shoot sub MOA than I'll get one of them. Where can I get a new Supergrade cheaper than $1138 (1285 tax in) from Epps? Might aswell just fork in another 500 for the sako right. I don't now which road to take on this one. Geez! Maybe I should just get a sporter from Bass Pro for $699 when I get home from work on the 21st. Life is just full of decisions isn't it?
 
Oct. 2009 issue of Shooting Times has an article by Layne Simpson regarding this topic. He tests a Pre-'64 built circa 1950, the USRAC circa early '90s, and a FNM brand new...all Featherweights in .270 Win.

For the hell of it (and because I basically have no life), I'll quote the article here for you...

...the company (FNM) chose to pretty much duplicate the (stock) introduced by USRAC back in 1981. The butt and midsection of the FNM stock are thicker, and the circumference of its grip is larger, making it a bit stronger than the USRAC stock, but it is also a tad heavier, and it lacks the trimness felt in the USRAC stock. FNM also retained the USRAC checkering pattern, but the diamonds appear to be laser-applied rather than cut with sharp-pointed diamonds, giving it a more finished look that the flat-topped diamonds of the USRAC stock. Checkering quality on both is a cut above that of the Pre - '64 stock.

Finish quality of the USRAC and FNM stocks is about the same and much better than on the Pre - '64 stock. The thin rubber pad on the USRAC stock is about as soft as a brick, while the Pachmayr Decelerator on the FNM stock is soft and cushiony and does a much better job of soaking up recoil. The metal buttplate of the Pre -'64 stocks looks better but rates poorly in recoil reduction. Wood-to-metal fit on the USRAC and FNM rilfes is quite good by today's factory rifle standards, but not quite on par with the Pre - '64 rifle.

Metal finish on the three rifles is equally good, and how they are rated depends on personal preference. As is typical of Pre - '64 rifles, the receiver of mine was given a matte finish, and its barrel was polished prior to being blued, a combination I have long been fond of. The receiver and barrel of the USRAC rifle have a shiny blue finish, while all metal on the FNM rifle was not polished quite as brightly prior to receiving its bluing. The latter is not as pretty, but since it is not likely to refect light in the field, it is more practical on a hunting rifle.

The unique feel of smoothness and solidity felt when operating the bolt of a Pre - '64 Model 70 is difficult to describe in print, and while USRAC was never able to quite duplicate it except on its custom-shop guns, FNM is so close on its production guns we might as well say they have arrived. The safeties of some guns produces by USRAC during its later years were difficult to operate, and while the one on the FNM rifle is not as smooth as those on my Pre - '64s, it probably will be once it is subjected to as many years of use. Close examination of the three rifles with a bore scope revealed a bore smoothness int eh FNM barrel unmatched by the other two, although (and this came as a surprise) the one on the 58-year-old Pre - '64 was in a very close second place.
Click to expand...

His bench results with factory Hornady ammo, considering the FNM was brand new, showed all of them to about equal...although none averaged (5 shot) sub-MOA.
 
My preference would be for either the pre 64 or new model 70 over the sako. I say this based as follows: Pre 64s were wonderful I have four. I also have a couple of classics. I have never had malfunction of any kind in 46 years of using them. Sight them in and they stay sighted. I have a p64 standard in 3006, that has stayed sighted since 1971. I still have some of the original ammunition, ditto for a featherweight in 270 since 1966. I have a couple of classics that are often critized, but I have had excellent performance no malfunctions and good accuracy with them. I have not yet owned a south carolina winchester but reports all seem to be good. I also own several remingtons a browning and savage and huskvrna so I'm not married to winchesters. I have seen several sakos fai to extract fired faxctory ammunition at the range and hence dont have any. Except for the new lightweight ones I find them heavy and awkward, but that is just me. Pick whatever your are comfortable with.
 
Winchester is no different that Ford and Chrsyler. The new Cudas are capitilizing on the look of the 1969, 1970 Cudas. The new ones look sharp and go like hell. They perform wonderfully and have all the latest gizmos and do-dads and sell for around $70,000. But as good as they are, or maybe even better, they're not the old classics. Watch the Barrett Jackson Auctions and see what some are willing to pay.

Ford's being doing the same with the Mustang. Hell, why not. The new ones are great, but they're sure not Steve McQueen's 427 Mustang from Bullit.

The new Model 70's would be my choice for a brand new rifle, no doubt about it. But I feel more comfortable with the pre-64 ones. I appreciate the hand machining and fitting. I like to see some machining marks on the forged steel components. There's beauty in simplicity and the pre-64 Model 70's, are to me, the high point in American gun making and owning and using these classics puts me into a time frame I'm comfortable in. I'm happy the new Winchester Model 70's are a success and even an improvement in some ways as I'm seriously considering a new one to take into rough humid country.
 
Rod,

I agree with you for the most part. You still see cars fom the 60's out on the roads and guys love them for their certain reasons as mentioned by yourself. But in 50 years from now, you won't see the mustangs or cobras of today out on the road. I just can't make up my mind as to get a new one and an old one. Maybe I should just get both!!!!
 
Go for a good condition oldie, you can't beat classic

win70left.jpg


And good luck finding a piece of lumber like that on a new rifle.

But with the new M70, its the old action, so really....you'll be ok either way.

One thing I like about the Pre-64 is the front sight.
 
is there anywhere you can buy a stock for a pre 64? The one I'm looking at is not pristine but the metal looks very promising. Even if the new stock comes unfinished I can do that myself. I might just redo the stock myself with the help of a friend that is a stock redoer fanatic. His stuff always turns out top notch. Also how much would a proffesional re-blue cost. The gun smith an my area is probally one of the best, maybe slowest too though.
 
sharp shooter said:
Rod,

I agree with you for the most part. You still see cars fom the 60's out on the roads and guys love them for their certain reasons as mentioned by yourself. But in 50 years from now, you won't see the mustangs or cobras of today out on the road. I just can't make up my mind as to get a new one and an old one. Maybe I should just get both!!!!
Click to expand...

Well I'm a fine one to say get a new one when I own 12 pre-64 M70's and still looking for more. I've been able to form good gun habits over the years so I use my pre-64's every year. This year I took a big mule deer with my 1954 F/W. Having 12 of them, gives me choices.

So far, I haven't bought a new one and I'd only buy it strictly to take into rugged terrain where a rifle may get a ding or two. So far, I haven't shot a new one and can't say if I'd like the new trigger or the stock but the feedback, I've heard, has been positive. The problem that I'd have is even if I made up my mind to buy a new Model 70, I'd most likely trip up and find a pre-64 and buy it instead.

Your idea of getting both, is a good one. Maybe buy a pre-64 first and go from there. . :)
 
I've never owned a Pre-64, but did look for a nice one for years with not much success. Every single one I found looked like it had been trough a couple of wars and then some, but because it was a pre-64, they were priced the same as better brand new rifles. So, when the new ones came out, i resisted for about, eh... 25 seconds before making it to the store to get one.

Mine is a Featherweight in .308 Win. Out of the box it was not as smooth as any of the pre-64's I've seen over the years, but that is normal. When you buy a brand new gun, its bolt hasn't been operated thousands of times like on an old gun, so it can't be as smooth. But after working a bolt a few hundreds of times, it is now one of the smoothest bolt actions I own.

Fitting on mine is excellent, although I am sure you could find many good examples of the pre-64 model with just as good, or better fitting. The wood on these new models is very nice for a production rifle, including when compared to the pre-64 models. And as a bonus, they come shaped for scope use, whereas the older rifles came with stocks better dimensioned for open sights use.

I am also one of those who wishes they had left the old trigger alone, specially when I am sure they were cheaper to manufacture than the new one. But hey, I guess they needed a marketing gimmick, so we got the new trigger. That being said, after some adjusting (including shortening the trigger return spring) I ended up with a 2.5 lb trigger pull with no take up, no over travel and practically no movement when breaking. By the way, when they say it is an adjustable trigger, they mean you can screw in the trigger weight adjusting screw to make the trigger heavier than the 3.5 lb it comes adjusted to. If you try unscrewing it to make it lighter, nothing happens, because the captive trigger return spring is just too long and won't allow the trigger to get any lighter.

Finally, accuracy. I will just say that the last 6 groups I fired with it (3 shots each) were all sub MOA. Five shot groups do go a little over 1 MOA, but these rifles have light barrels that can warm up quickly and I am not a very patient person to wait for the barrel to cool down between shots.

I would say the new M70's should be considered by anyone looking for a high quality bolt action rifle. I have been wishing for another one myself, a Safari model in .375 H&H. I just hope Santa's a member here. :)
 
I consider the design of the old M-70 trigger to be the best feature of the M-70,a great hunting rifle trigger.It's simple, open, and adjustable. But the old gunsmiths tell of it often needing tricky stoning in jigs to maximise it's full potenial.I have a tuned up one,but if truth be known,the Accutrigger on my Savage is better.There in is the problem,and why of the new trigger. You can get a great trigger from the factory,now.
 
Well i just went out and bought a new Winchester Model 70 FWT in .270win from my local gunshop for $21.00 more than WSS is asking. So now i will see for myself. I am so tired of all the pros and cons and all the varied prices that make no sense to me at all.

so now i will see and if my new Featherweight is like the ones i fondled but where in the wrong caliber......now i know i will be quite satisfied

Best of the new year

Gord
100 Mile House,BC
 
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