So Santa Dropped off a Black Powder rifle

Pathfinder

Pathfinder

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Much to my suprise I received a Traditions Buckskinner Muzzleloader for Christmas, its a 50 cal, and it handles really nice with the carbine lenght barrel. I havent finished reading up on loading up blackpowder yet but it seems fun.

Wondering if there was any suggestions for loading supplies ? As for twist rate it says 1-20" on the barrel. My intended use will eventually be big game hunting so Deer to Moose .
 
I was just reading about those....they seem to shoot pretty flat....being a Centrefire rifle guy Im still trying to wrap my head around bullets that are undersize but im coming around.

what's the general feeling on pyrodex pellets ? not flexible enough ?

I would like to get setup with a practical setup for the field. I supposed having pre-measured containers of powders handy in the field would be just as good and cheaper.
 
No real experience but I'd vote for the big solid 300-600 ish grain bullets. Nothing says dead moose like putting 500 grains of lead in it's lung.
 
Pathfinder said:
I was just reading about those....they seem to shoot pretty flat....being a Centrefire rifle guy Im still trying to wrap my head around bullets that are undersize but im coming around.
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essentially you have to spin the bullet at the rate that stabilizes it rather than the sabot diameter hence the faster twist. Twist and bullet length and diameter are all related by the Greenhill formula of T = 150 D squared over L and you can switch the letters around to estimate maximum length that will stabilize in 20" of spin.
the sabot spins the bullet and guides it down the barrel and the lighter weight of the slug allows a higher velocity than you would get with a bore size slug. Not terribly different from the high velocity armor piercing artillery rounds of WWII.
Unless I am mistaken you are probably going to be loading a fixed number of pellets of the various artificial black powders

cheers mooncoon
 
Sabots don't interest me. I am more of a traditionalist. I would try various bore sized bullets of differing lengths until I found one that would shoot. There is nothing like a full sized lead slug to bring down large game. Pyrodex pellets are convenient and easy to handle in the field but loose powder may produce more consistent results. Range time is the answer to all of your questions. Good luck, Dave
 
Dantforth said:
Sabots don't interest me. I am more of a traditionalist. I would try various bore sized bullets of differing lengths until I found one that would shoot. There is nothing like a full sized lead slug to bring down large game. Pyrodex pellets are convenient and easy to handle in the field but loose powder may produce more consistent results. Range time is the answer to all of your questions. Good luck, Dave
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I know what what you mean about Sabots...I will also play with some patched balls, heck of a lot cheaper for plinking and doubt a deer would go very far after a .490 ball throught the lungs.

What is the feeling on Real black powder versus the Pyrodex substitute ? Seems cleaner at the very least.
 
The twist suggests that u use sabots, i would use two pellets of 7-7-7, it's water washable so cleaning is a breeze. That will give u 100g of powder, the guns are "usually" made to handle 150g but i've yet to see one shoot consistently using that much. If u want to use loose powder u can experiment up to 120ish but somewhere around there is where consistency drops off most say. Bullet compensating scopes such as leupold ultimate slam are calibrated for 250g sabots and 100-150g of pwdr, heavier bullets are unnecessary for deer or moose and drop considerably faster.
 
Pathfinder said:
I know what what you mean about Sabots...I will also play with some patched balls, heck of a lot cheaper for plinking and doubt a deer would go very far after a .490 ball throught the lungs.

What is the feeling on Real black powder versus the Pyrodex substitute ? Seems cleaner at the very least.
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I shoot a Lyman Trade rifle in .54 and use nothing but real black powder. I have in the past used sabots and various bore sized bullets, and filled tags with them. My twist is 1 in 48" so my results will not be the same as yours. I find that real black powder has instantaneous ignition, and is far quicker to clean up at the end of the day than the subs. Although I like round balls, your rifle may only shoot them accuratly using light charges around 50g. Some have got good results using paper patched bullets in fast twist rifles, like the old buffalo hunters used to use. After 25 years at this I am still learning, and that is what makes it so much fun. Good luch and have fun.
 
Don't know that the 1-20 twist is ideal for roundball. It is pretty perfect for a big long slug though. No experience with roundball but in 50 cal they might not be ideal for 75 yard moose where you could feel pretty confidfent launching a 500 grain 1/2 inch diameter javalin at him. You don't give up much in velocity between a 180 grain RB and a 350+ grain connical.
 
david doyle said:
Don't know that the 1-20 twist is ideal for roundball. It is pretty perfect for a big long slug though. No experience with roundball but in 50 cal they might not be ideal for 75 yard moose where you could feel pretty confidfent launching a 500 grain 1/2 inch diameter javalin at him. You don't give up much in velocity between a 180 grain RB and a 350+ grain connical.
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I would definitly leave the round balls at home for Moose. I was looking at some 50 cal slugs this morning. Probably use the balls for cheap plinking.

A 444 gr. 50 cal powerbelt might just be what the doctor ordered.
 
Here's some pretty good info for the Buckskinner to get you started.I did a quick Google outta curiosity just to see what a Buckskinner looked like and got lucky the first result. ;)

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/buck.htm

It seems the author liked the 320gr LEE REALs over 5.3cc of Pyro RS?Not sure what 5.3 cc works out to in grains by volume,the standard for measuring black powder charges,but I would think any more than 100gr,maybe less(?) in that short barrel would just be a waste of powder?Personally,I'd stay away from the sub powders in a caplock and use real black like Goex for example.Definately wouldn't use pellets.Real black has a lower ignition temp and thus more reliable ignition in a capper or flinter than any of the subs,and pellets are pretty much useless in a sidelock unless you load some black underneath them to light'em up,they're made for 209 primed inlines.

Good luck with it,have fun,and make good smoke.
 
Pathfinder said:
I know what what you mean about Sabots...I will also play with some patched balls, heck of a lot cheaper for plinking and doubt a deer would go very far after a .490 ball throught the lungs.
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I think you will find the 1:20 twist rate to be very fussy for round ball. I suspect that you will find only a narrow range of powder charges over which it is accurate and those charges may be fairly light. You would need to bench the gun and fire 5 shot groups starting down around 35 grains of 3F and going up in 5 grain jumps and see how your group changes.
Your other non sabot option is to try something like a maxi ball and lube it with something like SPG or an animal fat mixed with bees wax 50-50.
You haven't posted any photos of the gun but I am guessing that it is a bolt action in-line gun with that fast twist.

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I think you will find the 1:20 twist rate to be very fussy for round ball. I suspect that you will find only a narrow range of powder charges over which it is accurate and those charges may be fairly light. You would need to bench the gun and fire 5 shot groups starting down around 35 grains of 3F and going up in 5 grain jumps and see how your group changes.
Your other non sabot option is to try something like a maxi ball and lube it with something like SPG or an animal fat mixed with bees wax 50-50.
You haven't posted any photos of the gun but I am guessing that it is a bolt action in-line gun with that fast twist.

cheers mooncoon
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Yeah, Ive read a few articles including the one posted above by grinrgr. (thanks for that)

Seems it will be sabot or slug with loose power as the pellets dont' seem to work well with percussion cap guns.

It looks like this one but it has a pepper laminate stock

buck01.jpg
 
Pathfinder, Smart looking gun. Don't be afraid to screw a pad on it before launching the 400 grainers at max velocity!
 
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