In reality is the M&P 9 Pro IPSC Production legal?

Canadian_Eh

Canadian_Eh

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It's listed in the IPSC Production Handgun list, but the post below from another thread has me wondering if "in reality" the M&P 9 Pros Series gets thrown in the Open division by the Match Director due to Section 21 in the rules (21.1c).

eclam said:
The 9Pro should be excluded. It is factory tuned (21.1 c) - been "modified". Read section 21.

I think the 9L should be included. The 9L doesn't have any tricked out features like - extended mag release. It has got the same frame guts as a normal 9 - unlike the factory tuned 9Pro. It has the requisite fixed sights (i think they mean iron sights - no fiber optics which also nixes the 9Pro). And honestly .75 inch of sight radius isn't a game breaker.
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The comment about the sights seems just wrong, so the whole post is suspect to me. Production Division limits the use of Optical sights, which the Pro Series does not have. It has Fiber-optic inserts, not lenses. IPSC Handgun rules on Sights:
5.1.3. Sights
Types of sights identified by IPSC are:
5.1.3.1. "Open sights" are aiming devices fitted to a firearm which do
not use electronic circuitry and/or lenses. Fiber-optic inserts
are deemed not to be lenses.
5.1.3.2. "Optical/electronic sights" are aiming devices (including
flashlights) fitted to a firearm which use electronic circuitry
and/or lenses.
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I'm no pro here so I defer to CGN wisdom on this. I'm not asking about trigger pull. If that every drops below 5 lbs. I agree it would no longer belong in Production.
 
Production class is simple. If it's on the list you're good to go. Sights are treated a little differently from other replacement parts. Any open sight is acceptable so long as there's no modification required to install it.
 
Viper26 said:
Production class is simple. If it's on the list you're good to go. Sights are treated a little differently from other replacement parts. Any open sight is acceptable so long as there's no modification required to install it.
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Well it's on the Production list so that's good. I have heard on other forums that the first trigger pull is just above 5 lbs. so that might be why it is not contentious. Anyone a member of IPSC in BC know if there are competitors using the M&P 9 Pro in Production?
 
Cpt.Flan said:
Hummm. Your does and I believe you but I am positive when we tested 1-2 Pro's, they both failed with a trigger pull just under 5 lbs... Around 4.6-4.8 if I remember correctly.

Both where brand new pistols. S&W advertise them at 4.5lbs trigger pull.

Did you change a spring or something? If not I guess if it's on the list, it's on it... Lol.

:rolleyes:
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There are at least two of us here in Alberta shooting them with no problems. Are you sure the trigger was weighed correctly? I haven't heard any chatter on the M&P forums about guns not meeting the requirement.

I know I have an Apex sear in one of my regular guns and it is border line pass / fail and I have one I did a trigger job on myself that will fail everytime but that is because I have it set to about 3 lbs. If the guns you tested had some gunsmithing done to them it is possible that is why they failed.

Steve
 
4string said:
There are at least two of us here in Alberta shooting them with no problems....
I know I have an Apex sear in one of my regular guns and it is border line pass / fail ..... If the guns you tested had some gunsmithing done to them it is possible that is why they failed.

Steve
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I thought Apex sears and 'gunsmithing' made M&Ps ineligible for IPSC Production Division? :confused:
 
Aqualung said:
I thought Apex sears and 'gunsmithing' made M&Ps ineligible for IPSC Production Division? :confused:
Click to expand...

They do. That is why I bought the Pro version, so I could have a trigger that was better that the stock one in the regular version.

I have 4 M&Ps and two of them have the trigger that is no longer PD legal. I measured the trigger pull to see how low the changes made them.
 
Cpt.Flan said:
There is a tool out there that measure the exact trigger pull. You put a hook against the trigger and pull it. Digital. You would be surprise how much trigger pulls vary on a brand new gun.

Just like this one: www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24583/catid/30/Lyman__039_s_Digital_Trigger_Pull_Gauge

Cheers.
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I know about digital measures, the question is what does it matter? The test for IPSC is whether the hammer drops when lifted with a 5 lb weight. It doesn't matter if your digital read out reads 2 lbs as long as the 5 pound weight can be lifted off the table without the trigger dropping the hammer or striker.

I can intentionally have my lightest trigger pass the test by not lifting the weight in a straight up and down manner. I can also make a trigger that should pass fail. Hence my question are you sure they were tested properly.
 
4string said:
They do. That is why I bought the Pro version, so I could have a trigger that was better that the stock one in the regular version.

I have 4 M&Ps and two of them have the trigger that is no longer PD legal. I measured the trigger pull to see how low the changes made them.
Click to expand...

Any advice on good factory ammo the M&P Pro likes to eat for IPSC Production? I don't reload just yet. If it is a competitive secret I humbly withdraw the question ;)
 
Cpt.Flan said:
Pretty sure they where. Gun was in a vice and the gunsmith pulled the measure.
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That is not the way a trigger should be measured at a match. Here is a quote from the rule book.

The rules state -
3. The trigger of the handgun must either:
(a) Raise and hold a 2.27 kg (5lbs) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically skywards and the handgun is gently raised, or
(b) Register not less than 2.27 kg (5lbs) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range Master;


According to Vince on the World Body site, option B is not the preferred way.
Here is his quote:


However, after our dismal experiences with a Lyman scale at WSXIV in Ecuador, we now recommend using dead weights. A "go / no-go" style is definitely a lot easier to administer than trying to read a marking on a wobbly scale. Moreover, there's no need to worry about dirty or weakening springs, or so many moving parts.

While the weight the gunsmith measured may be 100% accurate, and in any other forum I wouldn't be argueing the point, in this forum it doesn't matter based on the points I have made.

Steve
 
Canadian_Eh said:
Any advice on good factory ammo the M&P Pro likes to eat for IPSC Production? I don't reload just yet. If it is a competitive secret I humbly withdraw the question ;)
Click to expand...

Can't help you there, it took quite a few handload recipes before I found one the gun was very accurate with. In my testing and in others I read while developing my load, a 147 grain bullet is preferred with a 124 grain as a second choice.
 
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