.303 British (not a Lee Enfield)

hitch.bd

hitch.bd

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I have a .303 British ERA. I Was talking to a gunsmith not long ago that told me they made them in 2 cals. .303 and 30.06. Identical firearms except in cal and designation. I might have this part wrong so help me out here.... the .303 is called a P-15 and the 30.06 is called a M-17.
Any knowledge in this area would be greatfully recieved. The one I have is sporterized but I have my eye on a fully furnished one. Are they rare as I have never seen any other than these 2, and you never read about them on here. I tried a thread search but never have any luck.
I hope to get some good feedback here so thanks in advance. Brad
 
You have a Pattern 1914 Enfield (P14) made for the British during WW1 by Eddystone in the US. They are chambered for the .303 British ctg. These rifles were also made by Remington and Winchester on contract for the British. They are not rare, although they are getting hard to find in original, un-altered configuration complete with long range volley sights.

After the US entered WW1 in 1917 they were short of rifles and had the same 3 manufacturers produce large quantities of the Model 1917 Enfield which is the P14 rifle modified for the standard .30-06 ctg.

Large numbers of both the P14 and M1917 have been converted to civilian sporters in a variety of calibers, but are most commonly found in the origainal .303 and .30-06 chamberings. They are well made, durable rifles.
 
yup P14 and M1917

M1917 is 3006 and there are repro out there as far as I know

P14 is also know as the lee enfeild No3, It<s a in between a no 1 and no 4. Whit a mauser bolt. It's Brit so .303. Mine does fire straight for her age!.
 
See, thats why I love this site... always get an answer to any questions you might have. So, what does the ERA stand for? The second one I have in mind is still stock: full furnature, volly sights, the works. Is there a way to find out the manufacture date? Any more info is always welcome.
regards, Brad
 
EDDYSTONE REMINGTON ARSENAL

Rifles made by Winchester were marked W.

Rifles made by Remington at their Ilion plant were maked RI.

The Eddystone plant was a converted locomotive factory in Pennsylvania. The plant was built and mostly equipped when the War started. Remington spoke for huge contracts for the P-`14 rifle, bought the plant and put the rifles into production in two places. Winchester did the toolmaking for all 3 plants, also did the original approval rifles that went to England before US production got going.

There is a good discussion on these rifles in Hatcher`s Notebook. You can download this from milsurps.com for FREE.

Hope this helps.
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smellie said:
EDDYSTONE REMINGTON ARSENAL

Rifles made by Winchester were marked W.

Rifles made by Remington at their Ilion plant were maked RI.

The Eddystone plant was a converted locomotive factory in Pennsylvania. The plant was built and mostly equipped when the War started. Remington spoke for huge contracts for the P-`14 rifle, bought the plant and put the rifles into production in two places. Winchester did the toolmaking for all 3 plants, also did the original approval rifles that went to England before US production got going.

There is a good discussion on these rifles in Hatcher`s Notebook. You can download this from milsurps.com for FREE.

Hope this helps.
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Click to expand...

I am a member of milsurp.com but have never taken the time to learn to navigate it. I guess this is a reason to try!!
ooops wrong website disregard
 
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I found the age of my Eddystone .303 via internet search for Eddystone, used to be a real good site if you google it.
My serial number says it was made in July of 1918, too bad someone butchered mine to make a sporter, would have loved the full wood on it.
It shoots unbelievable straight too, and the rifling is very deep and quite hard to get clean with any cleaner.
 
The year of production is usually unimportant for firearms. Unless you are a serial number collector, the What is more educational than the When. For the range of production, the US got into WWI in 1917 (hence the Model of 1917 name) and ran through until 1918. Once the plants got started, they made rifles by the thousands per week. It was highly skilled work that paid well and Uncle Sam was willing to buy rifles.
 
purple said:
You have a Pattern 1914 Enfield (P14) made for the British during WW1 by Eddystone in the US. They are chambered for the .303 British ctg. These rifles were also made by Remington and Winchester on contract for the British. They are not rare, although they are getting hard to find in original, un-altered configuration complete with long range volley sights.

After the US entered WW1 in 1917 they were short of rifles and had the same 3 manufacturers produce large quantities of the Model 1917 Enfield which is the P14 rifle modified for the standard .30-06 ctg.

Large numbers of both the P14 and M1917 have been converted to civilian sporters in a variety of calibers, but are most commonly found in the origainal .303 and .30-06 chamberings. They are well made, durable rifles.
Click to expand...

I think he's got it right. :agree:
 
hitch.bd said:
Is there a way to find out the manufacture date? Any more info is always welcome.
regards, Brad
Click to expand...

There's a group of folks who focus on this genre and gather in a specific forum for collectors of these type of rifles, so if you want to get more detail they may be able to help.

Forum for discussions about M1917 "American Enfield" and British Pattern 1913/1914 Enfield Rifles

M1917 and Pattern 1913/1914 Rifleshttp://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=111

Regards,
Doug
 
Thanks, Badger; I still can't do the link thing yet (still computer-illiterate to an awesome degree).

The British contracts were tapering down by the time the US entered the War in April, 1917, and M-1917 rifles entered production as soon as the special tooling was made. I rather doubt that the P-14 was being made in July of 1918. Problem here is two almost-identical rifles, each with a serial number range starting at 1 in each of 3 different plants. It is possible to assemble a "set" of 6 rifles with the SAME serial number!

If the rifle is a .303, the barrel date will be on the LEFT side of the chamber at about the 10 o'clock position. If the rifle is a .30-'06, the barrel date will be on the top of the barrel, about 1 inch to the rear of the front-sight base.

Winchester and Remington produced close to 1,000 rifles a day of each type during the contracts while Eddystone actually got ramped up all the way to FOUR THOUSAND rifles a day, plus spare parts. For a plant that hadn't made a single rifle only a couple of years before, this is VERY impressive.

BTW, contract price on these rifles was $26 each. Gold was $20 an ounce. You can work out for yourself the VALUE of the rifles in current debased 'dollars' from this. They were QUALITY rifles.

Both types had Enfield-rifled barrels. Enfield rifling lasts five-eighths of forever but it is at its best with flat-base bullets. That's nice for pensioned-off old pharts like myself, flatbase bullets being cheaper than boat-tails!

Do have fun!
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BTW, while you're over at milsurps.com, download yourself a copy of "The Lee-Enfield Rifle" by Major E. G. B. Reynolds.

Reynolds actually had access to all the original paperwork at Enfield before it went to the shredder and there is information in his book that you will find nowhere else. He has an EXCELLENT chapter on the design and production of the P-'14 rifle, including Trials rifles, the original P-'13 and its awesome Magnum-class .276 cartridge, manufacturing mods and so forth.

The book has been in the realm of "pure Unobtainium" for the last 40 years with specimens selling for shocking prices.

You can download it FREE at milsurps.

Not the worst price in town, one would think.
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Many of the differences between the P14 and Model 1917 are very apparent. Many parts are inter-changeable between the two rifles, but others are not.

Last spring I bought a very nice M1917 Eddystone in full military configuration and was surprised to see that someone had swapped in a commercial ####-on-opening bolt kit. As I set about replacing the internal bolt parts I learned that the innards are interchangeable, except for the firing pin/striker and and the main spring which are different between the 2 models. The differences wouldn't be evident at a glance.
 
Home Guard Model of 1917 Enfields

John Sukey said:
While the Brits made little use of the P14 in WW1, they were damm glad to have them after Dunkirk.
The Home Guard got the M1917 and the army got the P14
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The British Home Guard Inventory of 1942 shows 839,252 Model 1917 Enfield Rifles. Most of the Model 1917 rifles had a two inch red band painted around the forestock, and 30-06 ammunition manufactured for them had a red band around the box of cartridges for identification of the ammunition.
 
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