jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
armalite is looking to build a new ar180b. they told me 2012 it will hit the market. hopefully it'll have a alloy lower. great news for the black rifle nutz out here in canada.
ar 180b for 2012
- Thread starter jeepcjaholic
- Start date
AGAIN, they came out in the six hundreds, but in buttFN typical fashion the price was doubled. BTW the way I just checked US prices and saw one for $713 new and $600 used.
People who think highly of the 180b need to get out more...
It's only plus is the price and well... You get what you pay for.
Chinsy/weak buttstock.. Don't tighten too much, you'll break it.
Stamped and pig-welded upper receiver... Good enough I suppose for a combat arm. Cheap and easy to mass produce.
Plastic lower... Not bad in and of itself, but... Careful with that pivot pin.
Trigger... Even for a $700 gun it's baaaad
I owned on for a while... Not impressed.
Yawn...
I've heard the same thing about the Glock for YEARS. Glocks work fine and so do AR180B's.
Stamped and welded upper? Are you kidding? You mean like the AK, RPK, Dragunov, MP44 and all the other unsuccessful combat rifles???
Cheap and easy to produce... is that supposed to be a negative somehow?
The PIVOT PIN??? Yes, I agree this is the weakest part of the design and could use improvement, HOWEVER, it doesn't do a damn thing when the rifle is assembled - it is only a potential problem if you don't follow the manufacturer's recommended disassembly procedures and abuse your rifle.
The bottom line is that it is not a modern AR15. The modern AR15 is a better rifle, yes. A better rifle you can fondle at home and shoot at a range. The AR180b is a decent compromise giving you most of the features and benefits of the AR in a gun you can take on a walk through the woods or to hunt 'yotes or whatever.
Bear in mind when Eugene stoner designed the AR180 (which is an AR180B upper on a polymer lower that wasn't technologically feasible when the original rifle was designed and that had some FCG parts swapped to AR15 parts to make it easier to produce), the AR180 very nearly REPLACED the M16 in US service. Only the weight of the US logistics juggernaut that had already adopted and started supporting the AR for immediate deployment to Vietnam halted the US government from completing AR180 trials to REPLACE the then widely unpopular M16.
The AR is the rifle it is today because of nearly 50 years of continuous development and improvement by a superpower. In 1965 the AR180 was a better rifle than the M16 by most accounts.
The original 180 had some issues with the buttstock hinge and a few other minor items, but had it been developed as thoroughly in service as the AR15, we'd probably all be arguing how great the 180 is compared to the M16 which had a low tolerance for dirt ingress, lack of maintenance and a high level of troop training to support its use. Certainly the guys who had to turn in M14's for the M16 HATED the black rifle until improvements were made.
Frankly, if the pivot pin had been steel re-infoced by Armalite and Stormwerkz have developed better buttstock solutions a little earlier, the 180B would be widely owned and appreciated by most Canadian black rifle enthusiasts. And if the SL8 were built less ugly in its commercial clothes it might also have converted many more shooters into owners.
All this to say that if you dislike the AR180B, that's fine, but dislike it for the right reasons (e.g. it doesn't fit you well, doesn't like your favorite load, doesn;t have the features or gucci-accessories you want to use, etc.) not regurgitated internet myths and half-truths.
FWIW, I have an AR180B alongside my other black rifles and it gets more use than I ever got out of the SL8 or AR15. Not because it was better, but because it was non-restricted and lighter and handier than an SL8 with acceptable performance to boot.
What's the big deal about having an aluminum lower? Yes people that open the gun and let the upper fall free on the hinge may break the lower but that is abuse and if yours breaks for that reason you deserve to have to go through the pain in the ass it is to send it away for a free replacement by Armalite.
The trigger? I don't know what people are complaining about, mine seems fine and if you don't like it replace it with a commonly available AR trigger set or just polish it up a little.
My only complaint about the gun is the accuracy is a little lacking, but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than my mini-14 was.
Price? welcome to Canada children, non-restricted black rifles are in high demand and you pay for things that are in short supply and high demand.
Watch the exchange and see how much people are asking for them (and getting) and how long they last (a day? maybe 2?)
The AR180b may not be as nice as a new AR15 but it has alot of really nice features considering the age of the design and lack of development. Piston operated, internal recol springs allowing the use of folding stocks, AR compatible trigger set and mags, Quick detach scope mount which returns to zero every time.
If you don't like it that's fine, don't buy one but don't bash it because someone broke theirs through abuse and whined all over the forums about it. It is a fine rifle that goes bang every time you pull the trigger and after over 1000 rounds mine has never had a single failure of any kind.
It fills the non-restricted black rifle void we have in Canada and we are only lately starting to get some nice rifles that can compete with it in that regard.
That being said I'm looking forward to seeing it reintroduced (maybe with some upgrades) and seeing more of them out there even though it will probably drop the resale value of mine. This doesn't really matter though since I don't plan on selling it.
Good luck everyone and maybe read up a little before jumping on the bash wagon.
The trigger? I don't know what people are complaining about, mine seems fine and if you don't like it replace it with a commonly available AR trigger set or just polish it up a little.
My only complaint about the gun is the accuracy is a little lacking, but it's a hell of a lot more accurate than my mini-14 was.
Price? welcome to Canada children, non-restricted black rifles are in high demand and you pay for things that are in short supply and high demand.
Watch the exchange and see how much people are asking for them (and getting) and how long they last (a day? maybe 2?)
The AR180b may not be as nice as a new AR15 but it has alot of really nice features considering the age of the design and lack of development. Piston operated, internal recol springs allowing the use of folding stocks, AR compatible trigger set and mags, Quick detach scope mount which returns to zero every time.
If you don't like it that's fine, don't buy one but don't bash it because someone broke theirs through abuse and whined all over the forums about it. It is a fine rifle that goes bang every time you pull the trigger and after over 1000 rounds mine has never had a single failure of any kind.
It fills the non-restricted black rifle void we have in Canada and we are only lately starting to get some nice rifles that can compete with it in that regard.
That being said I'm looking forward to seeing it reintroduced (maybe with some upgrades) and seeing more of them out there even though it will probably drop the resale value of mine. This doesn't really matter though since I don't plan on selling it.
Good luck everyone and maybe read up a little before jumping on the bash wagon.
"Well I for one will gladly pay $1500 for a $600 rifle in order to support our Canadian dealers!!"
Those guys make me want to puke.
I can taste your sarcasm.
Just because it's MSRP in the States started out at $600 does not mean that is what it should be worth here in Canada. The BS importers and exporters have to go through is enough on it's own to jack the price 25%.
What did an AR15 cost back in the 80's? That's right, a heck of a lot less than the $1200-$4000 we pay for one today.
It's worth whatever the market will support and since a used AR180 still goes for $1500+ I guess that is what they are worth.
It has nothing to do with supporting anyone, it has to do with paying what it costs to get what you want. If the price is too steep then keep shopping and find something else.
As an aside, the rifles in the US were $600 before any taxes and shipping and were imported by Wolverine when the C-dollar was only worth about $.072 US.
That means based on exchange, the price would be $768. Now let's take the average sales tax in Canada (this was BEFORE the conservatives knocked 2 pts off the GST) at 15%. $768 becomes $883.20
That's nearly $900 and we have not factored in shipping fees from the manufacturer to Canada, importation costs, brokerage, etc. and of course store profit and overhead involved with getting these classified non-restricted.
Isn't that $1000 cost starting to look more justified?
This ain't the USA - get over it. And if you can't afford to pay and play, stop whining to us about it and go get a better job.
That means based on exchange, the price would be $768. Now let's take the average sales tax in Canada (this was BEFORE the conservatives knocked 2 pts off the GST) at 15%. $768 becomes $883.20
That's nearly $900 and we have not factored in shipping fees from the manufacturer to Canada, importation costs, brokerage, etc. and of course store profit and overhead involved with getting these classified non-restricted.
Isn't that $1000 cost starting to look more justified?
This ain't the USA - get over it. And if you can't afford to pay and play, stop whining to us about it and go get a better job.
