bore size for .303 ?

migrant hunter

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Just fired my new to me .303 sporter. It's a mongrel no 4 with numbers filed off and repairs on the wood(it was a cheap gun)
I bought some .3105 cal hornady fmj bullets and shot a few today. Keyholing at 50 yards in a 12" pattern.
I bought a box of coreloct 180 factory, but might not get to shoot them til next week.
Would slightly undersize bullets shoot that bad? What size should I be looking for in a bullet? I just want something to hit the gongs, not expecting sub moa.
 
While "Officially" the bore size for .303 Brit is .311, they can range way above that.A well used Enfield bore can be greatly off, such as .315.

Take it to a smith and have him slug your bore. You can also do this yourself with a slightly oversize lead bullet or fishing weight.
 
They will actually vary in both directions. Even if they are brand new. I have No4 rifles with bores as tight as .309 and as loose as .317 and they look like new with unworn lands or throats. I think the wartime standards were pretty lax and the limits were pushed to meet quotas. In all honesty My UK made No1 rifles don't exceed .314 even with worn throats.
I have one POF No4 MkII that measures .310 and a 1950 Long Branch that measures .311. The Lithgows I have are all over .314, right up to .318 their bores are around 95% so I would think their wartime tolerances were very lenient as well. They shoot well, if not spectacularly.

I haven't looked lately but it was quite common to be able to buy 30 calibre bullets ranging from .300 to .318 diameter. The .318 diameter bullets were for the early Mausers but worked quite well in the Lee Enfiels with over sized bores. I still have a meagre selection of different sized 30 cal bullets. Not enough to share but enough.
 
Migrant Hunter

Good idea to slug your barrel, however cast bullets are usually quite hard and next to impossible to stuff through the bore. The best bore slug material is pure lead. I have .311 bullet dies and could size a few slugging bullets in pure lead for you. PM me if you want a few.
 
Keyholing bullets and 12 inch groups at 50 yds indicates a pretty severe degree of bore erosion. The same thing can be seen with worn out machine gun barrels. The military reject limit for barrels was if the bore would pass a .307 dia gauge in relation to the nominal bore diameter of .303. the minimum acceptable bore diameter was .301.
 
As has already been stated, in many of the 303 caliber rifles available, there is a wide variation in bore diameters. With that in mind, the suggestions to slug your barrel is a definate must. With what you've said you got for a group at 50 yards, I'm wondering if there are other problems. See what the results are when you slug your barrel but if the measurement is in the ball park, perhaps get a gunsmith to check the rifle out.

At present I have a pair of Jungle Carbines and my best accuracy has been when using bullets 0.312" such as the Hornady 150gr, 174gr and also with the 215gr Woodleigh.
 
I slugged the bore of my Mk4 with a lead fishing weight I bought at Cdn Tire, pushed through with dowling also bought there. It is .315. I shoot casted lead through it and it works great, and also factory 303 hunting loads. I just sighted it in at 25 m for the hunting loads and it grouped around an inch; acceptable for my uses.
 
You don't have to slug the whole bore. just use a mallet and tap the lead slug a half inch or so at the muzzle. That will tell you 99% of what you need to know. That way, its very easy to push back out.

By the way, the Russians weren't the only ones that counter bored muzzles but they sure did do a lot of them. Many 1903 variations also have counter bored muzzles. I had a Brasillian 30-06 with a counter bored muzzle as well.
 
Theoretical BORE size of the .303 was .303, although the British did allow it to go as low as .301 at times. A .304 gauge passing all the way through was a "fail" with a new barrel.

The Ross Rifle Company held .300 - .301 as their standard on many of the 1905 rifles, although this opened up a little with the 1910.

GROOVE size was supposed to be .311, but some .310s did get through.

Enfield riflng is especially difficult to measure, what with there being a land opposite each groove. This is exactly the same as with the modern "5R' rifling, which is simply a right-handed copy of Enfield rifling: odd number of lands and grooves, grooves deep and wide, equal to the width of the lands. Ross rifling was much easier to measure, there being only 4 lands on most Rosses.

The British did extensive experimenting with bullets and barrels over a large number of years. One thing they determined was that Enfield rifling has a DEFINITE preference for FLATBASED bulets. Another thing they determined was that almost ANY Lee-Enfield rifle will shoot better with bullets made to the upper limit of tolerance, which was .312. This all was known more than a century ago, yet people still insist on making bullets in .3105 and .311. I find this incomprehensable, myself; it's almost as if they don't WANT the rifles to shoot accurately.

That said, there are many reasons why a rifle might not shoot accurately. The Damned Crack is a very important reason and it is equally so with the Number 4 as with the old Number 1. If a rifle shoots wildly, the fore-end should be removed and checked for The Damned Crack; it is to be found at the rear end of the fore-end of the rifle, just ahead of the butt socket, right where the trigger/sear interface is to be found. The wood dries in our climate (the rifles, most of them, were made in comparativly wetter climates.) and this is the thinnest point in the wood, it has a lot of stress on it, and so it cracks right here. It is a simple matter to degrease The Damned Crack, glue it with Acra-Glas and clamp it for 24 hours, following which any excess glue may be trimmed and the rifle reassembled. The Damned Crack is responsible for more lousy shooting than half of the bad barrels in existence. The name, by the way, came from the old-time Bisley shooters; it is not my concoction. Any time a rifle suddenly loses any semblance of accuracy, or the rifle suddenly starts shooting 2 groups on the same target, The Damned Crack is to be suspected.

That said, many barrels were ruined by careless cleaning ("cord wear"). Generally, a barrel so worn would have been replaced or, at the very least, the wear would have been marked with the appropriate Inspector's stampng.

In Commonweath Service, counterboring barrels was not a general practice, although a few such rifles do exist. In civilian life, however, with the dearth of decent barrels, it is bound to become more common. The job can be done in a lathe with a boring bar, although a 3/8 end mill also does it very nicely. It may be necessary to clean up the new internal muzzle with a needle file; if this is necessary, proceed VERY cautiously.

Another reason for a rifle shooting all over Creation can be muzzle damage. This can assume many forms, including impact damage and corrosion damage (rust pits). Damage RIGHT AT the muzzle often can be cleaned up by recrowning the rifle. Depending upon the depth and severity of the damage, it may even be possible simply to recrown the muzzle with a ceramic/diamond dust stone, a few drops of motor oil, an electric hand drill and a few minutes of careful work. Severe damage can require use of a lathe.

Hope this helps.
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Is not the Hornady .3105 FMJ bullet a 122 or 123-grainer designed for the SKS/AK family of 7.62x39 rifles?

That could be a chunk of your problem right there.

Rifling pitch on the .303 is 1 turn in 10 inches. This is FINE for the old 215 used in the Boer War and it worked for the Mark VII but only after some very careful redesignng.

MOST .303 rifles with good barrels will shoot a 150 flatbase (such as a Hornady) fairly well and some will shoot brilliantly, but not all.

But when you get down to a 122-grain bullet, you are well outside the "envelope" for the .303 cartridge with 10-inch-pitch rifling. This light bullet should be used with 12-inch or 14-inch pitch rifling; with 10-inch pitch it is overstabilised starting right off.

Don't blame the rifle if it can't stabilise a bullet which is undersized AND designed for a much slower rifling pitch.
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I slugged the bore of my Mk4 with a lead fishing weight I bought at Cdn Tire, pushed through with dowling also bought there. It is .315. I shoot casted lead through it and it works great, and also factory 303 hunting loads. I just sighted it in at 25 m for the hunting loads and it grouped around an inch; acceptable for my uses.

100%. Take a caliper to a lead fishing weight and get a dowel. Quick and easy.
 
As above, your best bet is a flat based bullet with the largest dia - the Hornady 150 SP comes to mind. I went through this with a P-14 years ago, it keyholed boat-tail milsurp but shot the H150 SP's fine.
 
ok, so I only managed to get out last night and fire 3 rounds. 180 gr remington.
I fired 3 quick shots(it was 30 below, with the wife waiting in the truck!) and had them in about 1 1/2" at 50 yards, all nice round holes.
When I got home I pulled a couple of the bullets, and they're only a little over .310 as well!
They are flat based, so have a much longer bearing surface than the 170 fmj"s, which are boat tail.
I will try slugging the bore when I get a chance.
Thanks for all the input.
 
However the MkVIII is a boat tail. but then you can change a machine gun barrel in a minute or two. I would guess that in a almost NEW barrel, a boat tail would work as well.
I wouldn't blame the barrel so much as the cordite propellant that, as mentioned corroded the bore just ahead of the chamber.
 
However the MkVIII is a boat tail. but then you can change a machine gun barrel in a minute or two. I would guess that in a almost NEW barrel, a boat tail would work as well.
I wouldn't blame the barrel so much as the cordite propellant that, as mentioned corroded the bore just ahead of the chamber.

Bingo.
 
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