westrifle '49

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Dsiwy said:
Am sorry but :onCrack:

There must be abig market for selling fake SKS's :rolleyes:
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that being said, the stampings on my 50 and 51 are clear and sharp, the serial # on both stocks is stamped straight and true, as is the star, the 50 is non original laminate stock, the 51 looks to be original hardwood.
 
six_steps said:
By my logic, somebody in Russia or Ukraine refurbished those rifles (not long ago) and put the "handmaid" marks on stocks and receiver covers, that is it.
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Ahhhh.............before you start making such serious allegations,you need to learn a bit more about the early years of SKS production at Tula. Go to the www.yooperj.com and get schooled.
 
If you read other SKS boards as well as CGN past threads, they all state how rare the 1949 is. It just seems funny over the course of the past year that just about every dealer can get you a 1949 with varying price ranges. If emmab is happy with his 1949 and the price he paid for it, then let it go. There is nobody on this forum that can state with a 100% certainty that it is real or not.
 
Woodbeef said:
Ahhhh.............before you start making such serious allegations,you need to learn a bit more about the early years of SKS production at Tula. Go to the www.yooperj.com and get schooled.
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1. "yooperj .com" is not a primary source for information about Tula plant. Show me any russian source about Tula stamps and markings or any american souce that is not a receller ar a gun dealer.

2. I did not say a word about the rifle itself. Just about stamps and markings on receiver cover and stock.

3. I did not make any allegations (serios or not).

4. I did not blame any gun dealer in selling "fake rifles".

My point is clear and very simple - these handmaid markings were drawn not in the Tula plant, but in some "repair shop" by a heavily drunk worker 5 or 10 years ago - not earlier, definitely not in 1949. These are not "stams" really, they are just a caricature to real Tula stamps.
Tula plant never issued any serial production firearm with handmaid markings.
 
six_steps said:
1. "yooperj .com" is not a primary source for information about Tula plant. Show me any russian source about Tula stamps and markings or any american souce that is not a receller ar a gun dealer.

2. I did not say a word about the rifle itself. Just about stamps and markings on receiver cover and stock.

3. I did not make any allegations (serios or not).

4. I did not blame any gun dealer in selling "fake rifles".

My point is clear and very simple - these handmaid markings were drawn not in the Tula plant, but in some "repair shop" by a heavily drunk worker 5 or 10 years ago - not earlier, definitely not in 1949. These are not "stams" really, they are just a caricature to real Tula stamps.
Tula plant never issued any serial production firearm with handmaid markings.
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you better reread your previous post . if the member bought it from a dealer and i do believe he did then you are saying the dealer is selling fakes.

now its up to you to prove it. lets see your evidence.

now stop and think , if someone gonna fake anything wouldnt they do a better job ? its like selling a rolex looking like a timex.

btw : those pics in yoopers site are in the US they havent been able to import any russian SKS for 17 years so there goes your theory about drunken workers doing the fake 5 or 10 years ago (not earlier).

six_steps said:
I do not know where those SKSs came from, but their stamps and year marks are not real Tula plant stamps. It is 100% fake.
Somebody tried increased a "collectable value" of those rifles, but did not have a real stamp and did this work awkwardly with chisel and kitchen knife :)
Stalin's inspectors would execute any gunsmith for this kind of work.

P.S. Did you see any other soviet firearm with so ugly stamps like that?
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IMHO, fakes or counterfeits are made by unscrupulous individuals to make money...a lot of money. The SKS rifle is not an expensive rifle...even the sought after '49s are still reasonably priced compared to other collectible rifles. Why bother faking it?

It is not logical to think that anyone would go to such lengths to make a couple of hundred dollars. More importantly, Westrifle is a reputable and knowledgeable firearms importer and distributor who handpicks the rifles he imports. I doubt if any fake could have gotten past him.

If at all, Emmab's 49 could be an early example that were hand stamped, and that might even be worth more than later 49s. Who knows?
 
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Curtton said:
you better reread your previous post . if the member bought it from a dealer and i do believe he did then you are saying the dealer is selling fakes.
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now its up to you to prove it. lets see your evidence.
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I have to repeat, I have never said anything about rifle itself - just about markings.

I can not prove anything without any reliable sources, so the best thing I can do - I am going to send a letter to the Tula military plant museum and if they have time and trouble to answer me, we will have a proven evidence for this case.
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Jeez what have I missed!! There is a lot more to a '49 than the stamps. The trigger guard and trigger group, gas block, receiver cover take down lever, hand guard lever, bolt, firing pin, carrier, bayo lugs and bayo are all unique to that year. Westrifle never said it was unissued or non refurbed in his ads. I agree the stock is matched to the rifle but I don't think that makes it a fake, but it is refurbed. I don't think it would be worthwhile to transfer old parts onto a new barrel(ie gas block and take down pins) so I think it is a period piece. The russians probably didn't give a hoot if it was a '49 or a '54 anyways, and it was probably up to Westrifle to seach through the piles of sks's to find the old ones
 
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bjs7293 said:
Ok...lets play the devils advocate here. Can you prove that the rifle is not a fake. Let see your evidence.
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play devils advocate ? obviously you are uncertain or you would have taken firmer stance .

the evidences are in front of you , all you have to do is read and learn. look at yoopers site, the US had that type of marking on their top cover for over 17 years and those arent the only two i have seen , i seen over a dozen over several years show up on gunbroker with the same markings.
 
six_steps said:
I have to repeat, I have never said anything about rifle itself - just about markings.

I can not prove anything without any reliable sources, so the best thing I can do - I am going to send a letter to the Tula military plant museum and if they have time and trouble to answer me, we will have a proven evidence for this case.
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then i wish you wrote them first before making such statement .

are the top cover easy to fake ? and the answer is yes, i have seen it on gunbroker but usually it doesnt have the proper gas block or spike bayo or the take down lever or the front ferrule . those never sold at a high price cos its too obvious.
 
Curtton said:
play devils advocate ? obviously you are uncertain or you would have taken firmer stance .

the evidences are in front of you , all you have to do is read and learn. look at yoopers site, the US had that type of marking on their top cover for over 17 years and those arent the only two i have seen , i seen over a dozen over several years show up on gunbroker with the same markings.
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I have not taken any stance at all. I just asked the self proclaimed SKS Guru of CGN to provide evidence that the SKS in question is not fake, just like he asked six steps for his evidence.
 
Some people just can't admit that they were wrong - even in part. Concerning probabilities, the only thing that is 100% certain is that some day you will die. If I was to challenge anyone that "all guns on CGN are fakes" and to prove me wrong to 100% certainty, I'd win. A pathetic mindless challenge, but a "winner" nonetheless.
 
easyrider604 said:
IMHO, fakes or counterfeits are made by unscrupulous individuals to make money...a lot of money. The SKS rifle is not an expensive rifle...even the sought after '49s are still reasonably priced compared to other collectible rifles. Why bother faking it?

It is not logical to think that anyone would go to such lengths to make a couple of hundred dollars. More importantly, Westrifle is a reputable and knowledgeable firearms importer and distributor who handpicks the rifles he imports. I doubt if any fake could have gotten past him.

If at all, Emmab's 49 could be an early example that were hand stamped, and that might even be worth more than later 49s. Who knows?
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I would disagree with you.
The is a flood of fake soviet watches on ebay and other sites; there is a lucrative industry in russia and ukrarine to fake any soviet made product that is in demand in the west.
And for those countries, $20 is a lot of money, therefore $200 is a heap of money! Worthwhile the time and effort to fake something.
Coming back to the rifles: I don't have one from '49 but I saw those hand engraved factory logos and production year before. Not sure whether they are fake, or genuine.
My earliest SKS is a 1950 vintage that has a properly stamped logo, year and s/n on both the receiver and cover.
However, the 1949 stock markings are a really recent and poor job; obviously, thet is not an arsenal stamp, and whoever did the job did not have access to genuine arsenal punches, therefore the hand made logo using a chisel or screwdriver.
 
kwhunter said:
However, the 1949 stock markings are a really recent and poor job; obviously, thet is not an arsenal stamp, and whoever did the job did not have access to genuine arsenal punches, therefore the hand made logo using a chisel or screwdriver.
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we knew from day one the stock was not original , not only by the stamping but obviously it was made for a blade bayo .

and the price i paid reflected that , i would have paid alot more if it was a 1949 non-refurb with proper spike stock and no paint.
 
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