Three People in Norfolk, Ontario Fined. Deer Hunters.

Turkey010 said:
It goes on more than you think I hunted with a group several years ago and they were talking about any small deer don't get tags on the second day.That was my last day hunting with them.
The law is clear no gray area break it and pay the price.
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Same here. I heard a guy talking about not tagging and it pi-sed me off.
 
Sounds to me that with Ontario's restrictive attitude towards firearm use and ownership and its heavy handed approach to the enforcement of game laws; the intent is to make folks throw up their hands and quit. Sure, those guys might have been intending to go out and shoot more deer, or they could have been simply not the brightest bulbs on the tree, got caught up in the moment and overlooked it. But in this country you are supposedly innocent until proven guilty. At that point they had failed to comply with a paper law. Had the CO gone to a judge and claimed he suspected poaching was being carried out by these guys, got a warrant to search the homes, and found freezers full of deer meat with no tags to prove it was acquired legally, then there would be proof of a crime and the full weight of the law could be brought down on them. If strongly punitive sentences like this are going to supported by a strongly anti-gun/anti-hunting bureaucracy, where little evidence of serious wrong doing needs to be presented to secure a conviction and punitive sentence, then future of sport hunting as a means of game management is in serious jeopardy. That may well be the aim.
 
Boomer said:
Sounds to me that with Ontario's restrictive attitude towards firearm use and ownership and its heavy handed approach to the enforcement of game laws; the intent is to make folks throw up their hands and quit. Sure, those guys might have been intending to go out and shoot more deer, or they could have been simply not the brightest bulbs on the tree, got caught up in the moment and overlooked it. But in this country you are supposedly innocent until proven guilty. At that point they had failed to comply with a paper law. Had the CO gone to a judge and claimed he suspected poaching was being carried out by these guys, got a warrant to search the homes, and found freezers full of deer meat with no tags to prove it was acquired legally, then there would be proof of a crime and the full weight of the law could be brought down on them. If strongly punitive sentences like this are going to supported by a strongly anti-gun/anti-hunting bureaucracy, where little evidence of serious wrong doing needs to be presented to secure a conviction and punitive sentence, then future of sport hunting as a means of game management is in serious jeopardy. That may well be the aim.
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Probably right on the first quote. As far as innocent until Proven Guilty, that is why they were charged and it will be left up to a Justice to decide.
 
Pathfinder said:
Actually I see it the other way around....if you put an untagged animal in your truck and then go about transporting it back to your home or wherever it needs to go that's where it gets dicey.......Around here CO's dont' do a lot of checking in the bush unless there's been a call or they are working a decoy but they do check a lot of hunters at road blocks .

Either way There's no real reason not to tag an animal at the kill site .
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road blocks may work well up north where there is probably limited access to certain areas making it is easy for the CO's to setup roadblocks in key areas. but, here in SW ontario it's not practical to setup roadblocks as there are simply too many roads. once you have the deer in the truck you're home free around these parts.

i could count how many CO's i've seen inspecting hunters around here in the last 12 years on one hand. it's a well known fact that they are way understaffed and i'd hate to think about how much poaching is actually going on around here.:(:mad:
 
obiviously the justice of the peace thought that $4600 was reasonable in this instant. you have to realize that poaching in an area not frequently travelled by C.O's happens quite a bit. I know a lot of farmers that don't care for the laws and will take the occasional deer. The conservation officer did what was right and charged the 3 people for various offences and the fine was the result of the justice of the peace. I'm pretty happy about the fine. maybe it will slow things down here.
 
Again tag it where it drops and no need to worry
Fine may be high but with the amount of poaching that goes on making examples of those caught may be the only recourse the system has.
 
Boomer said:
And does a fine of $4K+ seem reasonable for noncompliance with a paper law?
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it's not a fine of $4k, it's 4 fines totaling over $4k.

http://simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2961737

"Larry Benz was also charged under the Off Road Vehicles Act for failing to wear a proper helmet. His fines totalled $1,650. West was fined a total of $2,000 while Janis Benz was fined $1,000."

not only were they transporting untagged deer, the driver was also riding without a helmet. breaking one law, might as well break another eh? they sure seem like real bright people. let's drag 2 untagged deer with an ATV without wearing a helmet on the shoulder of a very busy road:rolleyes: they were just asking to get busted and i'm glad they did.

what i'm wondering is why keith west was fined twice as much as his hunting partner...
 
canadian hunter312 said:
it's not a fine of $4k, it's 4 fines totaling over $4k.

http://simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2961737

"Larry Benz was also charged under the Off Road Vehicles Act for failing to wear a proper helmet. His fines totalled $1,650. West was fined a total of $2,000 while Janis Benz was fined $1,000."

not only were they transporting untagged deer, the driver was also riding without a helmet. breaking one law, might as well break another eh? they sure seem like real bright people. let's drag 2 untagged deer with an ATV without wearing a helmet on the shoulder of a very busy road:rolleyes: they were just asking to get busted and i'm glad they did.

what i'm wondering is why keith west was fined twice as much as his hunting partner...
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But sir it was only a paper Law. What to heck is that all about. You hit the nail on the head in regards to them not being too bright.
 
Winchester-1897 said:
But sir it was only a paper Law. What to heck is that all about. You hit the nail on the head in regards to them not being too bright.
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What its about is the fact that those people were properly licensed and therefore not poaching. I assume they had the tags with them, just not cut or fastened to the animals. Poaching is shooting at game or being in possession of game that you have no license for, or that exceeds the limit set by your license. To me that does not seem too difficult to understand. The penalty should fit the crime, in this case a pretty minor crime, which could have been addressed with a warning or a fine of a few hundred bucks, if you wanted to make a point. But if the game laws are applied that rigidly, I can see lots of folks opting out.
 
Boomer said:
What its about is the fact that those people were properly licensed and therefore not poaching. I assume they had the tags with them, just not cut or fastened to the animals. Poaching is shooting at game or being in possession of game that you have no license for, or that exceeds the limit set by your license. To me that does not seem too difficult to understand. The penalty should fit the crime, in this case a pretty minor crime, which could have been addressed with a warning or a fine of a few hundred bucks, if you wanted to make a point. But if the game laws are applied that rigidly, I can see lots of folks opting out.
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They and anyone like them can opt out anytime they like!
 
They broke the law simple as that.This sport has many people and groups against it follow the laws not really hard to do is it.
 
posts from a couple different members on another forum...

"it sounds like they wanted to use the tags for another time , [ this through the grapevine ] it's surprising who knows who , it's really a small world."

and

"One minute people are pi$$ing and moaning that the bad guys don't get caught. THen when they do get charged its because the CO is new and has somthing to prove. Well guess what. Thats what we pay them to do. The law is the law. Abide by it or accept the penalty."
 
Boomer said:
What its about is the fact that those people were properly licensed and therefore not poaching. I assume they had the tags with them, just not cut or fastened to the animals. Poaching is shooting at game or being in possession of game that you have no license for, or that exceeds the limit set by your license. To me that does not seem too difficult to understand. The penalty should fit the crime, in this case a pretty minor crime, which could have been addressed with a warning or a fine of a few hundred bucks, if you wanted to make a point. But if the game laws are applied that rigidly, I can see lots of folks opting out.
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That is EXACTLY what they were doing. If they don't cut the tags, they can go on to poach another day.

If they are poachers, they can't "opt out" fast enough.
 
After a little more looking into this story, there was helmet charges, and no mention that the people in question even had tags on hand. Easier to see why the heafty fine.More to the story as I said! I wasn't in the court room, so my bet is there is still additional info.

I have seen fines in the past where Elk had been shot where there is no season, deer out of season, shooting from the roadway(day and night) convictions that has gotten much less in the way of fines. The OP with little info, and fine amounts didn't make sense. A bit more clear now, but not crystal yet.
 
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