Is it truly kinetic energy such as the formula stated, that we feel or is it momentum and impact?
which has more recoil 270 0r 308?
- Thread starter vitaminb
- Start date
Is it truly kinetic energy such as the formula stated, that we feel or is it momentum and impact?
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Two loads, each a classic deer weight for each.
.270 Winchester 130gr BTSP @ 3100FPS 59 grs H4831 7lb rifle 18.5 lbs free recoil.
.308 winchester , 165gr BTSP @ 2700FPS 46.5 gr Olin 748 7lb rifle 18.05 lbs free recoil.
You tell the difference, i can't.
These loads were what i recall getting from 22 inch barrels. It's been many years but in equal weight rifle and stock config they are almost identical.
.270 Winchester 130gr BTSP @ 3100FPS 59 grs H4831 7lb rifle 18.5 lbs free recoil.
.308 winchester , 165gr BTSP @ 2700FPS 46.5 gr Olin 748 7lb rifle 18.05 lbs free recoil.
You tell the difference, i can't.
These loads were what i recall getting from 22 inch barrels. It's been many years but in equal weight rifle and stock config they are almost identical.
x100 on that!! My kid has one, and its a great round for deer, yet it wont turn his shoulder purple while at the range for a day.
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
They have almost identical ftlbs of free recoil but the the velocity of the recoil is faster with the 270 making it less comfortable to shoot. More muzzle jump and quicker snap.
I am not a small guy and I shoot lots every year (1000+ rounds) and I don't like to shoot anymore than about 20 rounds out of the 270 and maybe 30 rounds out of a 308, but I can shoot a 7mm-08 all day.
It is your decision but have a hard look at the 7mm-08, if it has to be either the 270 or 308, the 308 will be nicer for them to shoot.
I am not a small guy and I shoot lots every year (1000+ rounds) and I don't like to shoot anymore than about 20 rounds out of the 270 and maybe 30 rounds out of a 308, but I can shoot a 7mm-08 all day.
It is your decision but have a hard look at the 7mm-08, if it has to be either the 270 or 308, the 308 will be nicer for them to shoot.
same rifle, same bullet weight.
According to Bob Forker in his 3rd Edition of Ammo and Ballistics, the relative recoil factor of a .308Win is 1.95 while the relative recoil factor of a .270Win is 1.82.
Now, I don't really know what that means, but I find that my .308 hits me harder than my .30-06 does, even thought they are the same rifle and the lighter bullet is in the .308. And the .270 hits lighter than both. That's just me, though.
According to Bob Forker in his 3rd Edition of Ammo and Ballistics, the relative recoil factor of a .308Win is 1.95 while the relative recoil factor of a .270Win is 1.82.
Now, I don't really know what that means, but I find that my .308 hits me harder than my .30-06 does, even thought they are the same rifle and the lighter bullet is in the .308. And the .270 hits lighter than both. That's just me, though.
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Best of both worlds. Go for 7mm-08. It's my next buy in a Ruger Compact.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
I used to own both, in practically identical rifles. One was a Stevens 200(.270) the other a Savage 11FCXP(.308) so like I said practically identical. I could not tell the difference in the recoil, and shot both until I realized the .270 Stevens shot 1/2 MOA at 200m. That is the only reason I decided on the .270 and sold the .308.
That said I have since sold the .270 and picked up a .243 for Deer and Coyotes. Trying to cut back on the amount of guns in the cabinet so I sold the .223 and .270 and got a .243. I love it. Not much recoil at all, flat shooting, and bucks the wind better than the .223 for the long coyote shots. At least that's what the range report says, as I haven't got a yote in my crosshairs yet.
That said I have since sold the .270 and picked up a .243 for Deer and Coyotes. Trying to cut back on the amount of guns in the cabinet so I sold the .223 and .270 and got a .243. I love it. Not much recoil at all, flat shooting, and bucks the wind better than the .223 for the long coyote shots. At least that's what the range report says, as I haven't got a yote in my crosshairs yet.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
7mm-08 actually performs worse than a .308 from a short barrel, the .308 delivers more energy and shoots flatter for any bullet weight you choose. Just basic physics, hydraulics let equal pressure make more velocity due to the greater base area of the .308" bullet, in a shorter barrel this is really highlighted. BC's are so close on hunting bullets they don't matter, I did proper tables up once to compare them and the .308 has the edge. That edge is modest, but it goes against what most assume about going to the 7mm-08. You just make ammo harder to find, and in a short barrel, lose a little performace. I first noticed this when I owned near identical rifles in .308, and 7mm-08, the .308 shot flatter and I was confused why. Now I know.
I agree with the guys that say the .270 kicks harder.
I have a Tikka .270 synthetic that (to me) kicks harder than my Savage model 12. Stock design has a lot to do with how hard it feels, but the 2 rifles appear to be close in stock design.
That being said, my Spanish Mauser FR-7 kicks the snot out of me (love it!!!)
I have a Tikka .270 synthetic that (to me) kicks harder than my Savage model 12. Stock design has a lot to do with how hard it feels, but the 2 rifles appear to be close in stock design.
That being said, my Spanish Mauser FR-7 kicks the snot out of me (love it!!!)
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Rookie all you need is the relative recoil equation. It will give you exact free recoil generated. Again the sense of felt recoil would be determined by exactly identical firearms right down to the hardness of the butt plate. The exact "equation" is somewhat complicated and precise. I learned the Powley way 30 years ago, but for the life of me can't remember it, but it was 99.5 accurate and a very easy equation to use. I will look for it and post it.
The RRF you mention is probaly from base weight rifle say 8 lbs against the typical load fired in each rifle caliber i.e, 130 in .270, 150 in .308 etc, but not allowing for burning more powder and launching heavier projectiles throughout cartridge practical weight range.
I'm surprised no one has brought up the .30-30. If the gun is for the wife and kids, weight is an issue - so I'm assuming you're looking for something they could comfortably carry. If you have your heart set on a bolt action or semi, then a .243 is great (like a T3 lite or scout type rifle). Personally, I have an affinity for the .30-30 as it was what I picked my first year out hunting at 14 (I also lugged around a .303 brit and a .270 bolt action before settling for the marlin lever). Shorter length and lower weight make it a good choice for a smaller person, also I found that a lever action was more intuitive to use although clearing it is a little more involved than just dropping a magazine or plate.
If your choice is just between a .308 and .270 - go for the short action - no reason in particular, just personal preference.
Nathan
If your choice is just between a .308 and .270 - go for the short action - no reason in particular, just personal preference.
Nathan
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Get a 7-08 , low recoil plenty of down range energy. You do that and you will be putting the Magnum away when you see how ya group it.
. Also makes for a nice handling compact rifle.Go to the Remington website and check the ballistics on their 140 grain accutip bullets, you may be surprised.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Which kicks harder? Who cares, the recoil of either can be ignored by a seasoned marksman, yet might prove to be a bit much for a beginner, particularly if he or she has a preconceived fear of it. Choose the rifle that is the most suitable to the end use, chambered for which ever cartridge it is available in at the time you purchase it. Don't wait a month to get a .270 that is available in a similar rifle but chambered for a different cartridge today. There isn't enough difference between any of these cartridges to give one a great advantage over another. Usually a short action .308 will be slightly smaller and lighter than the standard length .270 or .30/06, although there are exceptions. If your rifle of choice doesn't have a good recoil pad installed at the factory, that needs to be a consideration. If the rifle needs to have the LOP shortened, you can upgrade the recoil pad at the same time.
The answer to your recoil dilemma is handloading, rather than attempting to choose a milder factory round. Load low recoil ammo until such time as your family can handle more. A 125-130 gr bullet loaded to 2600 produces mild recoil from any cartridge from 6.5 to .308, yet still produces suitable terminal ballistics for hunting deer sized game. My, small for his age, 12 year old grandson did pretty well shooting my wife's cut down .30/06 loaded to this level last summer. This rifle has a ghost ring and post rather than glass, a 21" light contour barrel, a 12" LOP, and weighs about 6.5 pounds . The only 130s I could find were TTSXs so his training and practice was on the costly side, but the smile on his face made it all worth while. Of all the guns he shot while here, this was his favorite, which trumped shooting a scoped .243 prone from the bi-pod, which he expected to like better. He also shot my .375 Ultra with 300 gr cast bullets loaded to 1200 . . . and hit the steel at 100! Not only did he get to shoot (lots), but he was able to help load his ammo as well.
The only factory ammo he shot while here was .22 rimfire, 9mm and .45 auto, and a few 12 ga field loads. He did better than you might expect with the full size .45, but had to lock his arms so the 1911 would cycle. My 9mm is a 3" prohib that is difficult to hit with, with and my disdain for it as a target gun quickly rubbed off on him. I knew the 12 ga was too much for him, but he insisted on trying it. I think the problem was the shotgun's LOP was much too long for him, but the clubby little sawed off Winchester 37 was the least of the evils, as I don't have much in the way of shotguns. I should have borrowed a decent 20 ga for him to try on some clay birds.
The answer to your recoil dilemma is handloading, rather than attempting to choose a milder factory round. Load low recoil ammo until such time as your family can handle more. A 125-130 gr bullet loaded to 2600 produces mild recoil from any cartridge from 6.5 to .308, yet still produces suitable terminal ballistics for hunting deer sized game. My, small for his age, 12 year old grandson did pretty well shooting my wife's cut down .30/06 loaded to this level last summer. This rifle has a ghost ring and post rather than glass, a 21" light contour barrel, a 12" LOP, and weighs about 6.5 pounds . The only 130s I could find were TTSXs so his training and practice was on the costly side, but the smile on his face made it all worth while. Of all the guns he shot while here, this was his favorite, which trumped shooting a scoped .243 prone from the bi-pod, which he expected to like better. He also shot my .375 Ultra with 300 gr cast bullets loaded to 1200 . . . and hit the steel at 100! Not only did he get to shoot (lots), but he was able to help load his ammo as well.
The only factory ammo he shot while here was .22 rimfire, 9mm and .45 auto, and a few 12 ga field loads. He did better than you might expect with the full size .45, but had to lock his arms so the 1911 would cycle. My 9mm is a 3" prohib that is difficult to hit with, with and my disdain for it as a target gun quickly rubbed off on him. I knew the 12 ga was too much for him, but he insisted on trying it. I think the problem was the shotgun's LOP was much too long for him, but the clubby little sawed off Winchester 37 was the least of the evils, as I don't have much in the way of shotguns. I should have borrowed a decent 20 ga for him to try on some clay birds.
