Non Lethal 12 gauge ammo

At 'in house' distances, less than lethal ammo will be lethal. There used to be a 12 guage blank(CIL as I recall) with the word 'blank' in big letters on the hull. Had a 2" wood fibre wad that'd go right through a 2 x 4 at 10 yards.
"...am I gonna have more issues than..." Yep. You'll be arrested, charged with attempted murder, likely aggravated assault, assault with intent, etc. Plus you'll lose your PAL and all your firearms.
"...otherwise your freshly cocked and loaded 870 may very well get used against you..." Precisely what Wendy and her like say about self-defense with a firearm.
 
sunray said:
At 'in house' distances, less than lethal ammo will be lethal. There used to be a 12 guage blank(CIL as I recall) with the word 'blank' in big letters on the hull. Had a 2" wood fibre wad that'd go right through a 2 x 4 at 10 yards.
"...am I gonna have more issues than..." Yep. You'll be arrested, charged with attempted murder, likely aggravated assault, assault with intent, etc. Plus you'll lose your PAL and all your firearms.
"...otherwise your freshly cocked and loaded 870 may very well get used against you..." Precisely what Wendy and her like say about self-defense with a firearm.
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And it is true; unless you are fully prepared to pull the ####ing trigger and kill another human being. If your mindset is anything less, you will be killed with your own gun, plain and simple. Self defense is not for the wishy washy, and self defense with a firearm requires 100% commitment to the preservation of the lives of you and your loved ones at any cost. Sorry if you disagree, but that's the way it is. :)
 
krausb said:
The only problem with that is; by the time it comes to you having to rack your 870, you already have angry bad guys in your house. It is too late to rely on any deterrent. You had better be fully prepared to use lethal force...
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Horses**t. According to John Lott,something like 98% of defensive gun uses involve no shots being fired. Simply presenting a gun is enough to send the scumbag fleeing. I do agree that you had better be all in on using the gun you just presented, though, in case you get one of the 2% that don't run at the sight of a gun. But to say that simply having and showing a gun is no deterrent is completely wrong.

sunray said:
"...otherwise your freshly cocked and loaded 870 may very well get used against you..." Precisely what Wendy and her like say about self-defense with a firearm.
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More bulls**t. This seldom happens in the US and they have enough armed citizens to give a very reliable statistical sample. While it CAN happen, it very seldom does.


Mark
 
mmattockx said:
Horses**t. According to John Lott,something like 98% of defensive gun uses involve no shots being fired. Simply presenting a gun is enough to send the scumbag fleeing. I do agree that you had better be all in on using the gun you just presented, though, in case you get one of the 2% that don't run at the sight of a gun. But to say that simply having and showing a gun is no deterrent is completely wrong.

Mark
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I think we are reading from the same playbook, Mark. I was referring to mindset, really. If a person's plan is to rely entirely on the "deterrent" factor and less-lethal ammo, then they are setting themselves up for disaster. I would not want to be the guy standing face to face with home-invading meth heads trying to explain to them that John Lott says they are supposed to run away when they hear me racking my 870. ;)
 
krausb said:
I think we are reading from the same playbook, Mark. I was referring to mindset, really. If a person's plan is to rely entirely on the "deterrent" factor and less-lethal ammo, then they are setting themselves up for disaster. I would not want to be the guy standing face to face with home-invading meth heads trying to explain to them that John Lott says they are supposed to run away when they hear me racking my 870. ;)
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In that case, I agree. While a gun is often enough deterrent, you must be willing and able to follow through with the threat. Bluffing is a very poor choice when your life is on the line.

Mark
 
Just picked some up today from fish and game . Had to sign alot of paperwork including a end user certificate from margo supplies . Here's the specs 73 grain soft rubber baton velocity at muzzle 738fps 10 meters 590fps energy at muzzle 89ft/lbs 10 meters 57ft/lbs. You have to check the barrel after every shot as sometimes the wad gets stuck in the barrel . And it won't cycle a semi . Not really something you want to trust your life with . But very useful as a second strike deterrent for large game. Such as the three moose on the airfield that refuse to vacate.
 
I live out in the country where it takes 10min for police to get to my house, with an activated alarm. We've been robbed once and our neighbours have all been robbed multiple times. even better they have never caught the bad guys. I wouldn't call that being protected.
 
You don't need to defend yourself your perfectly safe if you just rely on the law enforcement in your area. They are trained to serve and PROTECT YOU, its the least they can do and its alright if they cant get to you on time... your dead already and ur just gonna turn into a cold case and vanish from existence, so just take it. But those poor criminals if you hurt them you will have to spend countless hours in court eventually go to prison for killing some scum of the earth *cough i mean equal human being*, its not their fault that they just wanted to slice your jugular for some crack money ... they were just defending their own right to exploit our justice system jee wiz guys
 
as told to me by a 30 year policeman at his kitchen table. If you shoot someone in your house make sure to kill them, that way there is one story in court; yours.
 
ILike it Tactical said:
I live out in the country where it takes 10min for police to get to my house, with an activated alarm. We've been robbed once and our neighbours have all been robbed multiple times. even better they have never caught the bad guys. I wouldn't call that being protected.
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only 10 minutes? you must be alot closer to a city than I am
 
Interesting posts...
I have empty shot gun shells "pellets romoved"..painted GOLD so there is NO mistake. When I take New younger shooters out to the range...this is what they get. Its safe it it gives them the "same experience" as the real deal. They got to shoot a big shot gun, and their happy.
Now....If an intruder did come through my window, and he had what looked like a "gun, rifle" ect and he was puting my life in extrem danger.....I would dial 911,so it would all be recorder.. throw the phone on the floor.... yell get out STOP, dont come any closer, stop..Leave now! Get out! I would tell him I am armed and I dont want a confrontation...stop, leave, get out...And if he kept coming at me ...I would fire my wepon, but not at him...I would give him another chance to retreat. I'm sure by this time, he would be deaf and running away.

goldshotgunshels001.jpg
 
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mmattockx said:
First, it is LESS lethal, not non-lethal. Second, the police and courts will still treat it as an application of deadly force, regardless of the ammo you chose. I am not sure if the ammo is available in Canada or not.

Personally, if I have to shoot someone, I will be using the real deal for ammo, because the situation will be desperate and lethal force will be justified. At that point, stopping the attacker will be all I worry about and if he dies in the process, too bad for him.

Mark
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What he said.

Go hard or go home - if it's desperate enough that you need to pull a trigger, it's desperate enough to use the real thing.
 
sfrc has rubber bullets on there website under animal protection.. BUT'' legally'' you can only use equal force .. if a situation is bad enough to resort to a firearm, it's bad enough to use live ammo.. z0mbie..
 
Z0MBIE said:
sfrc has rubber bullets on there website under animal protection.. BUT'' legally'' you can only use equal force .. if a situation is bad enough to resort to a firearm, it's bad enough to use live ammo.. z0mbie..
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No, you can use reasonable force. That is not at all the same as equal force.


Mark
 
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