What dies to start out with when ordering LEE ??

blueflash

blueflash

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I am getting ready to take the plunge and make my order to buy a Lee Classic Turret Press and all the goodies needed to start reloading for 9mm and 30/06 (30/06 not so much of). I have read countless hours of information to get a good understanding of whats involved and what I need to buy in a "one order shopping spree".

I am a little bit confused about what dies are best for me. I am not sure if I should get the Pacesetter Dies for my 30/06 because they come with the factory crimp die, or if I should get the Deluxe rifle Dies?? I currently shoot a Tikka bolt action rifle, but I could buy a Semi-Auto rifle down the road, and I want my reloaded 30/06 ammunition to be able to cycle properly in a autoloader therefore I believe I need to use a FCD ?? So basically my question is...Should I buy the 30/06 Pacesetter die set or 30/06 Deluxe rifle die set for loading 30/06 ammunition that may be used in a autoloader??? If I was using a precision .308 bolt gun, then I would try to develope the most accurate ammuntion possible, but my biggest concern right now is switching guns and wanting the ammunition to cycle in anything I shoot the ammunition in. Since the Rifle dies only come with 3 Dies, is it best to order a 3 hole Turret to load 30/06 or get a 4 hole Turret for 30/06 ? Also, with the Lee rifle dies, I am pretty sure that I need to lube the cases ? Why does it say on the Lee website that no lubing is required ? What type of Lube method is recommened, a pad and squirt bottle type lube or spray lube ?

The 9mm Dies, I am pretty sure I should get the Deluxe 9mm pistol dies because they DO come with the Factory Crimp Die, so I am all hunky dory. Do I need to Lube these cases??? I have read elswhere that no lube is necessary for the Lee pistol dies because they are carbide and don't stick like the rifle cases do ?? is this correct ?

Sorry for all of the questions, because I do realize that I could ask the place that I order from alot of these questions, but I find that the experience and knowledge on this forum for matters such as these are second to none.
 
I like the Lee factory crimp dies, but you can use the bullet seater to crimp as well.
You'll have to lube the 30.06 cases, but not the 9mm because they're carbide like you said.
Type of lube is your call. I hear people like the pads, but I use vegtable oil on a Q-tip, then wipe the inside of the case neck with another Q-tip before powdering.
Hopefully this answers your questions.:wave:
 
I crimp my semi auto rifle cartridges (223 for AR), but don't bother on the bolt action (308, 300WSM). It's something a guy can play around with and see if it affects his accuracy. I've never had a problem with recoil pushing the bullets deeper into the cases.

There's all kinds of lubes that are popular. I've used the Lee lube and imperial sizing wax (its like Carmex lip balm). Both are good. Some guys like a spray on lube. I use my fingers, others use felt pads, or even shake the cartridges in a tub with it. As long as it works, I'm happy. As Lister says, no lube needed for carbide dies for handgun cartridges. But for rifle, if you skip the lube, you get stuck cases, damaged cases, and problems.
 
Get the deluxe set which is carbide and comes with the factory crimp die.
http://http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/cart.cgi?1297700538.3133=90963
Order a couple of spare
http://http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/parts/2167.jpg

When you order the press, get a few of these as spares, replace them every 6 months
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/parts/3567.jpg

A universal diecapping die is useful as is spare turret plates.

Mystic is a dealer here and can get you Lee stuff for a decent price, he can giv lots advice on loading rifle stuff as well. I use both the deluxe rifle dies and the standard carbide ones. You must lube the rifle cases, about 3/4 up the case, and the mouth, don't lube the shoulders or you will get a dimple. (mm brass does not need to be lube but is sticky due to it's taper. make sure you pull the decapper and sizing die apart every so often and clean it. Same with the bullet seating die if you use cast bullets.
 
What they are referring to in the Lee add for the Deluxe set is the Collet die which neck sizes only thus no lube needed. If you also use the regular full resize die included in the set ypou do need to lube. Since you want to use the same ammo in 2 different rifles you will have to full length resize. If you make ammo only for your bolt you can neck size the cases fired in that rifle use exclusively in it. For your semi you should full resize, and maybe crimp to stop the bullet from being pushed into the case in its rough trip from mag to chamber. Hope this helps.
 
Okay thanks , it sounds like I should get the pacesetter 30/06 die then so I get the factory crimp die.

Do you guys know what turret I should order for the rifle dies, the 3 or 4 hole? Im not sure which one to buy? I know I need a 4 hole turret for 9mm because there is 4 dies, but with the rifle dies theres only 3 dies. Do I get the 4 hole turret and just leave the option of a fourth die being used for something else down the road or does everyone recommend a 3 hole turret for using rifle dies in the classic press?
 
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I would go with the deluxe die set for the 30-06. Then you can neck size and also full length if you ever have to. The crimp die is only $15 if you decide you need it later on.

A turret press is typically only used for pistol cartridges. Most do not use it for rifle, but they can be used. It does not matter much how many spots for dies when it comes to rifle. As I said most only use one.
 
I use my turret press for rifle, but have to take the index rod out for 308 & 303. The Classic I think can index with cases 3" long. Get the 4 hole press.
 
I loaded lots of .308 and .30-06 before I had a FCD for my M14 and M1.
I have one now and like it, but you don't NEED it.

For .30-06 you could just start with the Lee RGB dies (2 dies set) for $13 then add the FCD and or Collet Neck die if and when you need it.

I have also planned to try neck sizing with the die from the Lee Loader that you tap in with a hammer, but use the rest of the press tools to complete the round.
 
I already have the whole pistol thing figured out, but loading rifle ammunition on the turret is a little bit more complicated since the pro auto disc does'nt throw out enough powder even with the double disc setup, to load larger rounds like 30/06, so it sounds like I will have to keep the auto indexing disconnected, so I can easily rotate the turret for using single stage, since I will have to measure the powder and dump it into each brass one at a time when loading 30/06. It sounds like a bit of a pain in the a$$, but I won't be loading more than a couple hundred rounds per year at the most, so its not that big of a deal. I don't understand why you guys are recommending that I order the 4 hole turret for using 3 30/06 dies because there is'nt a need for a fourth hole, but maybe I'm missing something that I will figure it out once its in front of me, so I will take your guys advise and order the 4 hole turret that the 30/06 dies will sit in permanently.

Now, when it comes to ording the Dies for the 30/06 I will order the Deluxe set, because the way you guys are explaining it to me, it sounds like the full length die will make the ammunition suitable for using in a autoloader if need be.

Is there a big difference in between using a full length die or factory crimp die to keep the bullet in place ? It sounds like they are both suitable for keeping a bullet tightly in place for using a semi-automatic.

Sorry for the stupid questions about the dies, but I was looking at a store, I think it was midway usa, and they listed the Deluxe rifle dies as suitable for making ammunition for use in bolt action rifles, but not to use the deluxe rifle dies if the ammunition will be going into a semi automatic rifle.........This is why I want to be 100% for sure that if I use a full length die that comes in the deluxe rifle kit, that it will keep the bullets tightly enough in place, if the ammunition may find its way into a autoloader. Although, I don't have a semi auto 30/06 rifle right now, I want to assume that every 30/06 bullet that I make, might go into a autoloader. I basically want to make 30/06 ammunition that is safe to put into anything, just like factory ammuniton. I don't like the thinking of "try it out and see if it will be okay".....I like to think like"If I use this die, then I know it will be okay".
 
hk33ka1 said:
I loaded lots of .308 and .30-06 before I had a FCD for my M14 and M1.
I have one now and like it, but you don't NEED it.

For .30-06 you could just start with the Lee RGB dies (2 dies set) for $13 then add the FCD and or Collet Neck die if and when you need it.

I have also planned to try neck sizing with the die from the Lee Loader that you tap in with a hammer, but use the rest of the press tools to complete the round.
Click to expand...

Do you use the full length die for making ammunition in your M14 and M1 ? or do you use the FCD ? I basically want to know exactly what I should get for running in a autolader. What would be the best combination of dies to buy for running in a autolader.........The Deluxe (using full length die) or The Pacesetter dies (using the factory crimp die) ?? I think I am just going to get the Deluxe Rifle Die Set in 30/06 and get the Factory Crimp Die also, just to be done with it, and that way I know that I have everything that I could possibly need. I am trying to do a one shopping order at a place online, and I don't want to have to make a seperate order for a couple of measly things a month down the road and have to wait, so I am just ording everything now that I could possibly need.

To make a long story short, this is my final question.
 
With a standard seating die you can crimp a bullet in place IF it has a groove in the bullet to take a crimp. Thus limiting your overall length to the placement of the groove. With the FCD you can crimp any bullet by the nature it crimps. Just a word of advice a good shooting load in your bolt may be too hot in your auto. Hand loads are just that, hand made for a particular rifle, while factory are a generally good load for any rifle. Handloaders make the best ammo for a particular rifle to get the most out of it (at least I do) and I won't and don't shoot it in another rifle without working it up from minimum to make sure it is ok. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.
 
BlueFlash I always use a Full length sizing die to size the case for my semis. I rarely use my neck die, but when I do it's only for bolt actions or single shots. You always have to use some type of sizing die. The FCD does NOT size cases or hold bullets in on its own.

After sizing, the case mouth for .30-06 should be around .306-307" so that when you seat (with seating die) a .308" bullet into it it is tight (neck tension) and will not fall out.

A crimp die of any type with squeeze or roll (depending on type) the neck/case mouth against or into the bullet to provide even more tension. This is usually done to all factory ammo especially for auto or semi auto, to keep the bullet from being pushed in or falling out. Many people who reload do not crimp their ammo for bolt actions and single shots, but some do. Semi autos, lever actions with tubular magazines and revolvers usually get crimped so the bullets don't move under recoil, from pressure in a tube mag, or during the operation of the action.

There are basically sizing dies, seating dies, and crimping dies (seating dies can crimp too usually)

1 Size case with die:
A. FL die fully sizes a case for any gun or autoloader etc.
B. Neck Size die sizes only the neck (for using in the gun it was already fired in) Both of these pop out the old primer.

2 Case must be checked for length and reprimed and have proper powder added.

3 Seat Bullet with die:
Most dies sets use a standard seating die to push in/seat a bullet. There are more precise ones for competition and long range type shooting.

4 Crimp case with die: (optional)
A. Use normal seating die to add a roll or taper crimp (whichever it is made for)
B. Use a specialty crimp die (FCD etc) to crimp in a seperate step after seating. Can be roll crimp, taper crimp, or a combo of this and sizer ring like Lee pistol FCD) Lee rifle FCD squeezes the neck with a collet like some factorys do to their rifle ammo.

Roll crimping is really only for bullets with a cannelure (dotted groove) FCD works on any type

In the end, you have to have a sizing die of some type to size the case, and you need a seating die to seat a bullet. You don't always need a crimping die.
 
blueflash said:
Okay thanks , it sounds like I should get the pacesetter 30/06 die then so I get the factory crimp die.

Do you guys know what turret I should order for the rifle dies, the 3 or 4 hole? Im not sure which one to buy? I know I need a 4 hole turret for 9mm because there is 4 dies, but with the rifle dies theres only 3 dies. Do I get the 4 hole turret and just leave the option of a fourth die being used for something else down the road or does everyone recommend a 3 hole turret for using rifle dies in the classic press?
Click to expand...

If you are thinking of using a 3-hole turret in a turret press set-up for a 4-holer, you can't do it. You cannot interchange 3 and 4 hole turrets.

If you are buying a Classic Turret, which IMO a better model than the old aluminum base turret, then you can only use 4-hole turrets.
 
Colin said:
You can get a powder through die "the universal rifle charging die" and mount the Lee powder measure which can handle the charge weights (the autodisks I find can throw about 37gr of IMR 4320)

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1297720264.3857=/html/catalog/powhan2.html
Click to expand...

When you do it in this way you described, do you just load up each case wit powder, one at a time, then put it on the turret press to finish the job??? Sounds like the best way of loading 30/06.....Too bad they did'nt have some discs with bigger holes specifically for loading up .30 calibre rounds, so it could all be done on the press like handgun ammunition.
 
You can do rifle ammo on a progressive, but due to the fact that it may need to be trimmed it is easier to do some steps manually first.

Straight wall cases like most pistol rounds and some older rifle types don't usually stretch much if at all (sometimes they shrink). For example 9mm or ,45ACP will likely never need to be trimmed, just load and shoot till they split or you lose them.

Bottleneck cases like .30-06 do usually grow in length when fired and when full length sized as the expander ball is dragged back through the neck. When loading these types of cases, it is a good idea to check the overall length after full length sizing to see if it is still within spec. If too long they must be trimmed before loading.

Here is how I loaded .308 for my M14 on a Lee Loadmaster;

Taking previously fired cases I FL lube, sized and decapped, tumbled all
Then I trimmed and chamfer/deburred case mouths of all on Lee Zip trim
Uniformed primer pockets and deburred flash holes (you don't have to)
Primed all cases with Lee Auto Prime hand primer (or just do this on press)
Fed cases into press, dies 1 and 2 empty since cases had been sized/primed
Powder Charged in 3 by Universal Charging Die/Perfect Powder Measure
Check powder level and seat bullet in 4
FCD crimp in 5 and then spit out round

This can also be done on the 3 or 4 station turrets.
 
Okay guys thanks alot. You have answered all of my questions that I have asked very well, and understandable for a new to reloading guy like myself. It sounds like to me that I am going to go with a Lee Pacesetter Die Set for my 30/06 loading because I do want to shoot ammunition that can be shot in a autoloader. I fully understand what is being said about having specific loads for a bolt action that you want to get the most out of. If I was shooting a .308 that I was trying to print tight groups with, then I would try to handload specific loads for that, but I'm not. I am just wanting to reload hunting ammunition that will fit into my Bolt action Tikka 30/06, and might find its way into a friends autoloader, or I might buy one myself again for hunting. In that case I am not going to load super hot loads and make it for one specific bolt gun. Even though I do have a bolt action rifle, I don't go to the range and try to shoot tight groups with a benchrest with it. I just shoot standing still, and various other positions, at various ranges to practise my hunting shooting stances, and ranges, so I know what is a resonable shot to shoot a moose or deer with my rifle. I don't do benchrest shooting with my 30/06, so I think in my case, it would be best for me to use the factory crimp die on all 30/06 ammunition that I reload.

Thanks for answering my question about the 3 or 4 hole turret. I plan on buying the Classic Cast turret press, and I did'nt know that you could'nt interchange 3 and 4 hole turrets because it only fits 4 hole turrets. This is what I wanted to know, thanks again.
 
When loading 30/06 in my case while using a classic turret press, would it be the easiest and fastest for myself to have the 30/06 brass, decapped, sized, cleaned, and then re-primed, then I should use the perfect powder measure that is bolted to my bench with a universal charging die and load the powder, by hand, one at a time into each 30/06 brass (checking with scale the first 5), then I just take the brass with the powder in it, and place it onto the Classic turret press, and finish the bullet process ???? Does that sound like the way that everyone would do it, that is the fastest, easiest method.

This is probably another dumb question, but is there a way of removing the pro auto disc powder measure that is attached to the press for loading pistol cartridges, and mounting the pro powder measure to the classic press for loading larger rifle calibers ??
 
blueflash said:
When you do it in this way you described, do you just load up each case wit powder, one at a time, then put it on the turret press to finish the job??? Sounds like the best way of loading 30/06.....Too bad they did'nt have some discs with bigger holes specifically for loading up .30 calibre rounds, so it could all be done on the press like handgun ammunition.
Click to expand...

No. The powder measure can screw into the die, which is mounted on the turret plate. It is activated by the case entering the die. The problem with using this system on the classic press is that the turret plate rotates and therefore no way to hook up the reset chain and the reset must be done by hand. The system was designed for the Pro 1000 and Loadmaster which have stationary turret plates. As long as you are paying attention there is no issue with doing it this way and I always check the case to see that the powder has dumped prior to placing the bullet on it.
 
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