what is the best all round big game hunting rifle?

Ardent said:
Here is an article discussing African hunting that actually describes the .458 Lott, a considerable step up from even .458 Win Mag, as the perfect all around cartridge from Duiker (25lbs) to Elephant. Very different perspective over there. .375 makes the perfect all 'rounder in my books, as trajectory improves over the .45 magnums.

http://www.africahunting.com/content/2-cartridge-458-lott-450-watts-450-ackley-magnum-326/
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.350 Rem Mag is as close to .375 H+H as damn is to swearing, up to 250 gr. :)
 
woodlotowner said:
.350 Rem Mag is as close to .375 H+H as damn is to swearing, up to 250 gr. :)
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I don't know about that, but suppose the .350 RM and .35 Whelen could run with the H&H with light bullets. (mine won't get within a mile of it)There still isn't any good reason to use anything lighter than 270 grains in a .375 and its just nicely getting going at that weight. There still is a class of game that isn't even legal to take on with a .35.

Even if the .35s can do it, you still can't do it if you're not allowed to.
 
Another highly underated North American cartridge is the .338-06. A lot of oomph without a lot of recoil in a standard weight, 30-06 length action rifle. A great selection of high quality big game bullets to choose from.
 
woodlotowner said:
.350 Rem Mag is as close to .375 H+H as damn is to swearing, up to 250 gr. :)
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I'm with Dogleg 100%, not even close. 250gr is a very light bullet for .375 H&H, my standard all around load carries a 300gr TSX, and I'm currently loading 350gr TSXs and will try solids of the same weight. A lot like saying a .260 Remington is basically a 7mm Rem mag.

I agree with geo for the .338-06, great cartridge, along with the 9.3's too. For North America, excellent choices.
 
samdunc said:
30-06 is good, it is best in a winchester model 70.If looking to use it worldwide then a model 70 in 375 H and H
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I have a .30-06 Model 70. I bought it about 10 years ago second hand. It has the smoothest action that I have ever seen on a rifle. I would never give that rifle up because of that action.
 
Ardent said:
I'm with Dogleg 100%, not even close. 250gr is a very light bullet for .375 H&H, my standard all around load carries a 300gr TSX, and I'm currently loading 350gr TSXs and will try solids of the same weight. A lot like saying a .260 Remington is basically a 7mm Rem mag.

I agree with geo for the .338-06, great cartridge, along with the 9.3's too. For North America, excellent choices.
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Yes, I like your logic Ardent. My point, I guess, was to suggest that many calibers can surpass, in terms of hunting effectiveness (penetration and stopping power), their slightly larger caliber bretheren in certain bullet weights. Mr. O'connor was the most 'ardent' proponent of this idea I believe, while postulating that the .270 was in fact the 'new king' in it's day.

That said, I completely agree that the .375 will outperform the .350 mag quite handily, beyond 250 grains, but not before that bullet mass threshold is reached IMO. Just musing out loud here. And yes, if I lived/hunted where there was dangerous game, I'd want to have the larger bore for the game it was intended for, no question. I am a big fan of TSX too BTW, and own a box specifically for producing hunting loads in every caliber I own. :)
 
woodlotowner said:
Yes, I like your logic Ardent. My point, I guess, was to suggest that many calibers can surpass, in terms of hunting effectiveness (penetration and stopping power), their slightly larger caliber bretheren in certain bullet weights. Mr. O'connor was the most 'ardent' proponent of this idea I believe, while postulating that the .270 was in fact the 'new king' in it's day.

That said, I completely agree that the .375 will outperform the .350 mag quite handily, beyond 250 grains, but not before that bullet mass threshold is reached IMO. Just musing out loud here. And yes, if I lived/hunted where there was dangerous game, I'd want to have the larger bore for the game it was intended for, no question. I am a big fan of TSX too BTW, and own a box specifically for producing hunting loads in every caliber I own. :)
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Well reasoned, and for their effect on game in North America, I would agree both are identical, with perhaps the exception of bison. 75% of the game my H&H has taken though is African, and for over there, there is no comparison naturally. I get where you're coming from with regards to hunting Canada, and love seeing people using plenty of gun.
 
Geez guys we get one of these every 3 months or so. Guess nobody reads the many many many other versions of this question. Ok Ill play the game... 30-06 yawn...
 
noneck180 said:
Decided on the 375 Ruger instead..I like the idea that the brass is shorter.
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People have been happy with them generally, but it's not without issues, just like the short mags feeding can be problematic. Also just like the short mags, guys who have good rifles report good things. For a bad review, read Biguglyman's review from his trip to Africa; not flattering.

You do give up the H&H's benefits in function, and the 'Ruger won't handle bullets heavier than 300 grains well. You lose a good bit of that .375 versatility the H&H has made famous, as 350 and 380gr bullets sink so far into the .375 Ruger case as to become no go's in a practical sense. The .375 H&H is regarded as one of the smoothest, best feeding and reliable cartridges on earth for good reason. The heavy taper of the case is for more than style, it presents the top cartridge from the magazine to the chamber with a distinct nose up attitude towards the chamber due to how a tapered cartridge lies against the feed rails. It 'funnels' into the chamber like greased lightning as well thanks to the taper in conjunction with its purposefully small, smooth shoulder. They knew what they were doing back in 1912 when they presented the H&H to the market.

Also, I've found ammo from Fort Nelson, to Bulawayo Zimbabwe for the H&H; not so for the Ruger. The .375 Ruger is a compromise, a way to fit a .375 bore in a standard action, and like all compromises suffers in areas. I know which I choose, but life's not always a have it all proposition, I'll grant you.
 
375 Rugers won't feed well.....:p:p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-cIVzdSpc

That was with flat meplat bullets that supposedly don't feed well to begin with.:)

With a 20" barrel I get:
2720 fps with a 300gr Nosler Accubond with RL17
2755fps with 260 NAB and 270 TSX and H4350 (RL17 could pump that up more if I wanted but I am happy with those loads I worked up before RL17 was available)

And although 300gr bullets in the H&H have long been able to kill everything everywhere, I will try the 350gr Woodleighs when they arrive but I expect velocities will be about the same or a little more than the H&H using the same bullets. ;)

In fact the guy at Gun Blasts did a test with 23" barrel 375 RUger and 25" CZ550 375 H&H and the 350gr Woodleigh and found that the RUger got higher velocities with all powders tested.:eek:

Comparative Velocity Performance

Bullet Mfg # Weight 375 H&H 375 Ruger
Calculated Velocity Actual Velocity Calculated Velocity Actual Velocity Velocity Gain* Energy Gain Ft/lbs
Hornady 3706 225 3,066 3,084 3,052 3,206 +122 383
Speer 2471 235 3,022 3,115 2,996 3,195 +80 263
Barnes 37552 235 3,014 3,103 2,987 3,177 +74 242
Nosler 54413 260 2,834 2,804 2,831 2,955 +151 502
GS Custom 2657 265 2,917 2,986 2,897 3,054 +68 242
Sierra 3000 300 2,646 2,736 2,678 2,810 +74 273
Woodleigh W46C 350 2,489 2,405 2,493 2,481 +76 289
*Ruger Hawkeye African with 23" barrel. CZ 550 Safari with 25" barrel

http://www.realguns.com/archives/144.htm

I don't see much point in the 350gr TSX. I actually think it won't work as well as the 300grTSX, probably penetrate less. But that is just theory as I haven't tried them and none of the African hunters on AR seem to be interested in them.
 
Gatehouse said:
375 Rugers won't feed well.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-cIVzdSpc

That was with flat meplat bullets that supposedly don't feed well to begin with.
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We all know Rifles will feed like crazy in front of the mirror :p

It's when you're facing one of BC's plentiful Man eating bears that it will jam and you will end up in a little pile of poop next to Treadwell thinking "dam you Bill Ruger" :wave:


Better get yerself a Levergun :rockOn:
 
BCWILL said:
We all know Rifles will feed like crazy in front of the mirror :p

It's when you're facing one of BC's plentiful Man eating bears that it will jam and you will end up in a little pile of poop next to Treadwell thinking "dam you Bill Ruger" :wave:


Better get yerself a Levergun :rockOn:
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:p:D

the internet is better now that you have returned.:cool:
 
Noted with the 350's, good stuff. Also the article hit another nail on the head, that is that the H&H is underloaded as standard. My 270gr velocities over H4350 outrun those Hornady heavy mag numbers by some yet, and perfectly safely. I load to much longer OAL than book numbers, my RSM's mag is about 4", and the H&H in it's unlimited true magnum action state (non Win M70 / Rem 700 length limited) is an impressive beast.

That said, I don't hunt with those loads. I have a viscious H4350 300gr load too that screams, but it doesn't go off the range. I plan to shoot 1km with it, just for droppings and laughs, and have an IOR scope and 30mm rings coming for the purpose and it will do that well I'm sure with the 300gr Hornady BTSP. But I don't hunt out there... I loaded 300gr TSXs mildly around 2500fps for Cape Buffalo, didn't need any more worked like a charm. When I go back late in the year, elephant cull might be part of it, and it would be a 350gr TSX at 2300fps.

I'm going to shoot a clay bank in the spring with 270, 300, and 350gr TSXs at my optimal hunting velocities for each to note penetration and cavity. I'd lay good money down on the 350 pushing deepest by good margin, but we shall see.
 
I've had or had 90% of above mentioned rifle
. I loved 350 but it wasn't left handed Both the 375 H7H 7 375 Ruger are Heavier than I like to carry much. #00 RUM does it all but if I was stuck with one rifle it would be a & Rem mag with 160's Partition or accubond at 3100. Mine comes in under 7 lb loaded with scope and drops everything I want in North America. Unfortunately I don't use it as much anymore because of the newr rifles that have to be bloodied but It is the that will be the last to go. That's just my opinion.
Neil
 
Ardent said:
Noted with the 350's, good stuff. Also the article hit another nail on the head, that is that the H&H is underloaded as standard. My 270gr velocities over H4350 outrun those Hornady heavy mag numbers by some yet, and perfectly safely. I load to much longer OAL than book numbers, my RSM's mag is about 4", and the H&H in it's unlimited true magnum action state (non Win M70 / Rem 700 length limited) is an impressive beast.

That said, I don't hunt with those loads. I have a viscious H4350 300gr load too that screams, but it doesn't go off the range. I plan to shoot 1km with it, just for droppings and laughs, and have an IOR scope and 30mm rings coming for the purpose and it will do that well I'm sure with the 300gr Hornady BTSP. But I don't hunt out there... I loaded 300gr TSXs mildly around 2500fps for Cape Buffalo, didn't need any more worked like a charm. When I go back late in the year, elephant cull might be part of it, and it would be a 350gr TSX at 2300fps.

I'm going to shoot a clay bank in the spring with 270, 300, and 350gr TSXs at my optimal hunting velocities for each to note penetration and cavity. I'd lay good money down on the 350 pushing deepest by good margin, but we shall see.
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I used to seat the 300gr bullets well out in my Brno 602 375H&H. It had a true magnum length action with lots of space. Just looking over some old data tonight as i was transferring my loading notes into a new book and I noticed I got 2635fps with a 300gr bullet (seated way out) I might have been able to get more but I didn't try. This is pretty good for an H&H but the cost was a much longer and heavier rifle. The Alaskan is a dream to pack in thick and steep. The Brno wasn't....

Interesting to see what the 350gr penetration tests show. I haven't seen any on the intraweb yet.
 
I'll concede the Alaskan is a very nice package to carry, my RSM is 10lbs+. I'm still at the age it doesn't matter, one day it might feel heavier. I went into ultralight rifles with a Kimber, only to find out it made no difference for me as long as I have a good sling. My .375's my heaviest rifle, and has logged the most miles on boots even though it's a fairly recent addition, joining the family only just over two years ago. That said, easy to carry something if you really want it with you. I'm always having a good time when it's on my shoulder, if the task felt like work, yea, I'd probably enjoy something smaller.

I haven't tried chasing sheep on scree slopes with it yet though. If it hurts nobody will ever hear of it as I'll never admit it. :p

As for the clay shoot, hopefully in May, we have banks of soft, pure clay that's perfect for testing. Hopefully I can get all three to enter perfectly on the same plane and can section the impact area of all three side by side.
 
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