Hunting deer with ANTIQUE rifles in Ontario

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Willy Tincup

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Owen Sound
I have just begun the challenge of contacting the Ontario MNR to try and have Antique class rifles added to the approved list for the muzzleloading seasons. Yes, I know it will be a long uphill battle but one that I think has merit and may possibly be won.
Antique rilfes must be made prior to 1898, be 8.3 mm cal or larger and not have a magazine....so basically are single shot rifles.
There are hundreds of them around the province, old 45-70's 50-70's 40-70 Maynards and so on.Rolling blocks, high walls, Sharps, Spencers, Maynard 1873's and 1882's and many more. Most are equipped with iron sights and peep sights, not scopes. Why shouldn't they get an opportunity to get out of the closet each fall?
I have been advised that the Ont MNR like the simplistic idea that 'it has to load through the muzzle' and thus make it easy for the CO's. Hhmmmm.
Anyway; here's what I am asking.
If you would also like to use your ANTIQUE to hunt deer with during the muzzleloadeer season then we need hundreds of people to contact the OFAH and the OFAH zone reps, field reps, etc and start asking for this to happen. They will be having meetings over the next few months were this topic will hopefully be discussed..........so the more requests for it the better the chances.
Bottom line is it would create more hunting opportunities for more people.
Thanks for your assistance.....wTc
 
They can come out of the closet each fall, in the rifle season. The differences between muzzleloaders, modern and antique, differ from a 45-70 in that they do not have a self contained cartridge. The benefits and advantages of using a cartridge, for the average joe that does not shoot benchrest with their muzzleloaders, are many and glaring.
 
Good luck. Personally I don't see how you can make any correlation between them being like muzzle loaders. As soon as they said that an antique 45-70 could be used during muzzle loader season, then every guy with a 1895 GG would be demanding to hunt with it during the same season since it hurls the same projectile. Can you explain how the age of a rifle can magically classify it as a muzzleloader?
 
Good thought though. Why not just declare an "antique rifle hunt" at the camp one year and all is good. I love the concept and tried to get an antique lever hunt going one year but it didn't happen. Vintage rifles just add that much more to the hunt.
 
Willy Tincup said:
I have just begun the challenge of contacting the Ontario MNR to try and have Antique class rifles added to the approved list for the muzzleloading seasons.
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starpuss said:
they will NEVER do this.... there Rifles not muzzleloaders...
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I agree with PUSS on this one.

You would have a better chance of getting them to look at adding rifles chambered for pistol calibers to the shotgun hunt. This has been looked at , and implemented in many states in the U.S.
 
Do you not realize yet that Ontario MNR do not want you anywhere near any of there resources. Stay home, you will be safer and much less of a burden on the Ontario taxpayer, which by the way is likely U.
 
Like that idea Willy.

Antiques occupy a separate and distinct status of law within the F.A.. Far more clearly and susinctly worded are the statutes for antiques than those for any other class of firearm ... IMO. They are quite well defined.

How tough would it be for a C.O. to confirm status in the field?. Perhaps a RCMP letter and/or FRT# could be mandatory for field use during the B.P./muzzleloader season?.

A cartridge single shot differs from a muzzleloader only in the time needed to reload.

In the real world, one good shot is all you're likely to get.
 
How about jut scrapping all the special seasons and hunting with what you want to during one long season, like some of us out here do?:confused:
I hunt with a stick bow( not lately because of a bum shoulder) ,.58 cal. hawken, .577 Snider, and have been know to shoot deer at long range as well with hi-tech wildcats.
never once thought of myself as handicapped by the tool iIwas using, and always had fun as well!:)
Cat
 
Using any kind of cartridge gun in the "muzzleloader only" season is just wrong IMO - just look at the name - read it.

A cartridge gun - even a one shooter - has a great adventage of a very quick second and third shot. I seems obvious to me they are not the same. There is a vast difference.

I hunt "muzzleloader only" season every year and I have several horses in this race. I have my front stuffer and also own an antique rolling block which I can use in the regular gun season - just like my buddy with his Ruger #1 45-70 single shot. There is no practical difference on hunt day between the modern and antique rifle.

The "muzzleloader only" is extra hunt season too. I think Ontario has it written up well to include any front stuffer - primitive to modern. Some places limit by law to just primitive gear. A lot of buckskinner types ##### about the saboted/smokeless types. But that's all they can do here. However, I think the use cartridge guns goes waaay too far because it's not a muzzleloader - it's against the basic nature of those special hunts.

However if antique singles were allowed that would be my first choice. I've had a few times when three deer came to me and I shot one while the other two milled around a bit watching me reload my muzzy gun - only to run off just before I could cap my piece. My antique rolling block woulda dumped a second at least in each scenario.

My 2cents
 
I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this one. I own a few antiques, and would love to use them. This change would mean that I would be allowed to hunt with them, as the Ottawa area is shotgun and M/L only. As to those that say a cartridge gun allows a faster second shot, realistically, with a single shot, you only get one shot. By the time you reload, whatever you were shooting at is long gone. The reservations I have are regarding enforcement. if an original Sharps is allowed, why not a repro. Same thing with the Hi-wall and the Rolling block. But if you allow the repro's, some of them can fire modern, fairly hi-vel ammo. If the guys decide to move ahead with this, just keep us advised, and I'll send a letter to the guys at Swamps and Bush
 
I would love to have an extra few weeks of season, or to be able to hunt closer to town with my Martini Henry.

but really the season is allready 2 months long here :D

but you guys have short seasons, perhaps you could convince them to have a graduated set of seasons.

week 1 muzzle loaders
week 2 antique rifles
week 3 open rifle
 
...as the Ottawa area is shotgun and M/L only
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The hunt originally mentioned in this thread was "muzzleloaders only" seasons - no shotguns allowed unless of the muzzleloading type.

...realistically, with a single shot, you only get one shot. By the time you reload, whatever you were shooting at is long gone.
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I disagree with this categorical statement. In my experience that's not so always - but usually long gone by the time I reload my muzzy gun - but I guess not with a single shot cartridge gun. A lot of times the deer don't know where you are after first shot - even had them run closer. However the time taken and reloading motions necessary with muzzy gun gives away your location. The deer run off. I have a good friend I hunt with that has killed two of three deer that came his way with his Knight - but he reloads pretty fast- 40 seconds I think. I would need a cartridge gun myself for reasonably fast followups.

That all said I prefer leaving the special "muzzleloaders only" seasons just that.
 
I think the real problem here was the introduction of the inline 209 style muzzleloaders into the hunt in the first place. The whole idea of the muzzleloader hunt was to have a season where it was more challenging for the hunter than using modern centerfire rifles. As well as the historical significance it has with going out in the woods and doing it the way of our ancestors.

So in one sense I agree that taking an antique single shot out would be far more challenging than using a shiny new TC Omega firing saboted copper jacketed pistol bullets atop 3 pellets of pryodex ignited by a 209 shotgun primer and scoped in at 4x magnification. It's still a great deal easier and simpler than loading a charge of real black powder under a patched round ball or lead conical and igniting it with a percussion cap or flint. Which in my opinion is what the muzzleloader hunt was supposed to be (note that I didn't say it should be).

So if we add single shot cartridge antique rifles, what's next? Ya give an inch they'll take a mile. By the way, for the muzzleloader hunt here I use a Lyman trade rifle in flintlock .50 cal with patched round balls. Just my .02
 
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