Short Barreled 7 Rem Mag

chuck nelson said:
Tell me about balance Jordan. Give me the low down.
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The front edge of the front action screw, and just SLIGHTLY muzzle-heavy is about perfect for me.... :p

The sarcasm and cynicism are getting thick in here. I'm really not sure what kind of big, important and grandiose person you think you are, Chuck, but I have absolutely ZERO desire to prove myself to you. I don't pretend to be the most experienced guy in here, but I openly share the knowledge and experience that I do have. In the future I would appreciate it if you kept your snotty comments to yourself.
 
Jordan Smith said:
The front edge of the front action screw, and just SLIGHTLY muzzle-heavy is about perfect for me.... :p

The sarcasm and cynicism are getting thick in here. I'm really not sure what kind of big, important and grandiose person you think you are, Chuck, but I have absolutely ZERO desire to prove myself to you. I don't pretend to be the most experienced guy in here, but I openly share the knowledge and experience that I do have. In the future I would appreciate it if you kept your snotty comments to yourself.
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When I'm dumber for reading what I've read here I can't help myself. I'm sorry you got caught up in it all. This thread is a real winner.
 
3350fps isn't out of the question with the right powder, a 24" barrel, and a strong, modern action.
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I have loaded for ten or twelve 7mm remmags with 24" barrels,and none would reach 3350fps with a 140gr bullet without pressure signs.Most would max out at around 3250fps.

Below is the Alliant data for R-17 in the 7mmremmag.The 130gr load tops out at 3255fps,and that is with a 24" barrel.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=25&cartridge=73

Guess what,both R-19, and R-22 both produce more velocity with a 130gr bullet.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...?gtypeid=2&weight=130&shellid=73&bulletid=120

And with 145gr bullets, R-17 once again produced less velocity than the other Alliant powders.
 
It's funny because the loads I worked up 10 to 15 years ago show zero pressure signs, and give me 3250fps in the 21.5" barrel, and about 3300-3350fps in a few other 7Mags that I've loaded for that have 24" barrels.

As time progressed, those loads, which were equal to or less than max in the manuals at the time, became more and more "unsafe", according to the ever-increasing "laywerized" loads published today. If you look in a manual today, my loads would be a few grains over max. I wonder what changed? My loads, my lots of powder, my bullets, and my primers have all remained constant.

Like I say, the strain gauge will be very revealing...
 
As time progressed, those loads, which were equal to or less than max in the manuals at the time, became more and more "unsafe", according to the ever-increasing "laywerized" loads published today. If you look in a manual today, my loads would be a few grains over max. I wonder what changed? My loads, my lots of powder, my bullets, and my primers have all remained constant.
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There is no doubt that there is now more emphasis on safety, and on reducing the danger of an overload.But, there is also the fact that most companies no longer use the Cooper crusher method to measure chamber pressure.They now use methods that are more precise,and some of those loads listed in the old manuals have actually been proven to produce pressures that exceed the SAAMI standards.Exceeding the SAAMI standards is not going to cause an action to fail in a short time period,but exposure to a high number of high pressure loads, can cause metal fatigue can occur.In time, metal fatigue can result in the catastrophic failure of an action.
 
stubblejumper said:
I have loaded for ten or twelve 7mm remmags with 24" barrels,and none would reach 3350fps with a 140gr bullet without pressure signs.Most would max out at around 3250fps.

Below is the Alliant data for R-17 in the 7mmremmag.The 130gr load tops out at 3255fps,and that is with a 24" barrel.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=25&cartridge=73

Guess what,both R-19, and R-22 both produce more velocity with a 130gr bullet.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...?gtypeid=2&weight=130&shellid=73&bulletid=120

And with 145gr bullets, R-17 once again produced less velocity than the other Alliant powders.
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Yeah, I'm thinking that R17 isn't ideal in the 7RM....by a long shot.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking that R17 isn't ideal in the 7RM....by a long shot.
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That information was meant more for CampCook, and anyone else that believed that it was some kind of miracle powder.The powder that produced the most velocity in my 7mm remmag rifles with 140gr bullets was R-22.But even with R-22, not one gun that I loaded for, would reach 3300fps and still have tight primer pockets after five firings.
 
stubblejumper said:
There is no doubt that there is now more emphasis on safety, and on reducing the danger of an overload.But, there is also the fact that most companies no longer use the Cooper crusher method to measure chamber pressure.They now use methods that are more precise,and some of those loads listed in the old manuals have actually been proven to produce pressures that exceed the SAAMI standards.Exceeding the SAAMI standards is not going to cause an action to fail in a short time period,but exposure to a high number of high pressure loads, can cause metal fatigue can occur.In time, metal fatigue can result in the catastrophic failure of an action.
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That's fair, but metal fatigue isn't something that only occurs when pressure exceeds some arbitrary number that SAAMI came up with. Fatigue happens any time you fire a rifle, and it increases linearly with increased pressure. This shouldn't be dependant on the cartridge that the gun is chambered for, or the SAAMI pressure spec for that cartridge, but simply on the tensile strength of the action steel. Would you agree? This means that an action that fires a 7WSM at 65,000psi endures more metal fatigue than a 7RM fired at 58,000psi, because the steel has to overcome the forces generated by increased pressure in the WSM. So if my 7RM action is of equal strength and quality as the 7WSM, I can fire a 7RM load at 65,000psi and the action will undergo the same fatigue as if I had fired a 7WSM factory load.
 
Why bother putting a magnum intended for longer barrels into a carbine? Wouldn't you be better off with something a little larger bore and quieter? Something that's more suited to a carbine?

That said, the OP is worried about 2 inches, not going from 26" to 18.5".
 
philthygeezer said:
Why bother putting a magnum intended for longer barrels into a carbine? Wouldn't you be better off with something a little larger bore and quieter? Something that's more suited to a carbine?
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Because some people are interested in results, rather than 'efficiency' (whatever that means in regard to hunting rifles).

If you can have a shorter handier rifle that achieves ballistics that better a 24" standard caliber, isn't that a win/win?
 
stubblejumper said:
Only if the recoil, muzzle blast, and muzzle jump aren't increased significantly.
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I'm only interested in things I can measure ;) must be the injuneer in me

Seriously though, if I live to be a hundred years old, I will never understand the concept of "I want a carbine, and am going to sacrifice some ballistics by going with a short barrel, therefore I should go with a smaller cartridge (thereby sacrificing even more ballistics)".

I suppose if one will only hunt deer and black bear however.
 
stubblejumper said:
That information was meant more for CampCook, and anyone else that believed that it was some kind of miracle powder.The powder that produced the most velocity in my 7mm remmag rifles with 140gr bullets was R-22.But even with R-22, not one gun that I loaded for, would reach 3300fps and still have tight primer pockets after five firings.
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And you tried RL17 in barrels shorter than 22" I'm thinking not... :p

and if you go back and read what I wrote my statement was
Switch to RL17 powder and you will not have a velocity loss of any kind...
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which was a response to shooting from a shorter barrel not a 24" barrel the OP was asking about...

FYI RL17 is the powder that Hornady used in their Lite Magnum series of factory loaded standard cartridges that produce higher velocities with either the same or lower pressures.
 
sealhunter said:
When you need Brakes, double extra super shock absorber pads, 16 inches eye relief and yadda yadda yadda...there does come a point of diminishing returns
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Holy schit Sealhunter your back... :D

I guess it all depends on how one handles recoil which is directly related to how much one shoots as too were the deminishing returns begin me it is when I push a 350gr 375 cal TSX over 2500fps in an 8lbs rifle so I reduce the velocitiy to 2450fps and I'm good too go...

:p
 
And you tried RL17 in barrels shorter than 22" I'm thinking not...
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And you tried R-17 in a 7mmremag barrel shorter than 22"? I'm thinking not.

and if you go back and read what I wrote my statement was
Quote:
Switch to RL17 powder and you will not have a velocity loss of any kind...
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If R-17 can't match R-22 in a 24" barrel in the 7mm remmag(as per the Alliant data that I posted), how would you expect R-17 in a 22" barrel to match R-22 in a 24" barrel?Do you expect R-17 to produce more velocity in a 22" barrel, than it does in a 24" barrel?It would have to, in order to not have a velocity loss of any kind.

FYI RL17 is the powder that Hornady used in their Lite Magnum series of factory loaded standard cartridges that produce higher velocities with either the same or lower pressures.
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You had better find a better source of information.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/11/hornadys-emary-shares-superformance-ammo-secret/

Read the first sentence of the third paragraph at that link.

Hornady is NOT using Alliant’s Reloder 17.
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I'll make it simple for you RL17 is designed to increase velocities from 50fps to 150fps with less than or equal pressures in any cartridge that uses this burn rate.

Not only common sense but actually loading several different cartridges tells me that if you are losing 50fps to 100fps by shortening a barrel by 2" that the end result will be almost identical velocities at the same pressures if you are using RL17 in the shorter barrel...

Last year Guntech shortened a 24" barreled 30-06 to 20" for me switching to RL17 I was able to equal the velocities that I was getting with IMR4064/IMR4350/RL22...

Its not rocket science...

;)
 
Camp Cook said:
Holy schit Sealhunter your back... :D

I guess it all depends on how one handles recoil which is directly related to how much one shoots as too were the deminishing returns begin me it is when I push a 350gr 375 cal TSX over 2500fps in an 8lbs rifle so I reduce the velocitiy to 2450fps and I'm good too go...

:p
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I could care less what anyone shoots... I like launching 350's pretty fast out of 45/70 :D

2 inches in barrel length from my observations, would make a difference in a rifles utility to less than 1% of the people who own rifles and shoot.

If you a guy/gal is in that smaller group, then they probably aren't asking the question about if it makes a difference....

.02 cents
 
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