Gew 98 Help - Pics Added

Recce21

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Gents,

I need some help with a 1914 Gew 98 I picked up. I want to disassemble the rifle for a good once over but I have run into a few problems.

1. The front band is stock on, I can depress the retention bar but the band will not budge;

2. The stock has shrunk from being stored somewhere dry so all the fittings are extremely tight, is there a solution to "rehydrate" the stock without cracking it?;
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3. The front action screw is seized on and looks like it has been for some time. The screw is damaged by someone prior to me trying to un screw it. Any ideas how to get it out?; and
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4. The rear band retention bar is stuck "down" I depressed it and it will not come back up, likely from the tight fit due to the stock shrinking but none the less, another problem I have right now.
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Any help would be great!

Here are some pics of the Gewehr and sawback for Nabs:
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I have no idea what the cartouche's are since it looks like someone sanded the stock at one point
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Any help would be great!
 
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Condition...Condition...Condition, just like Location, Location, Location.

It's a tough call on either one as you risk breaking the wood and screws if they are seized and end up with a piece of junk.

Parts are not readily available either.

Some things are just better left alone.
 
I have run into these problems with my Gewehr 98s so here is what I have done to deal with them:

1. Wrap a small towel around the fore stock and use rubber grip clips (vice grip ones work great) and depress the band spring. Next, use a wooden dowel or a screw driver with a very thin but blunt edge bit (ones that take out very small square or hexagonal head type screws work great for me) and place the bit against a corner of the band. I find the best spot is back top right or left of the "H" band where the band is at the wood / metal line. Here you will notice a bit of metal that is perfect for our uses. With the help of a hammer, place the bit, affixed to a screw driver, against the location of the "H" band mentioned earlier being careful not to put the bit at too much of an angle or the screw driver resting on the fore stock and with firm medium taps, you can get the band to move off it's position.

It is difficult to explain the action in words but hopefully you will see what I mean when you try it.

2. I have not tried to "re hydrate" the stocks on any of my Gewehr 98s as I have no experience doing so. I usually rub some oil into the stock after my initial cleaning efforts are complete. A few of them do show shrinkage due to age but I consider that part of the rifle.

3. Try adding some gun oil, penetrating oil, or even some WD-40, and use a screwdriver bit that, in your best guess, would stay in the recess and not strip the screw when you are moving it. You may even try some light back and forth motions with your screw driver to allow the screw to begin to move freely.

Sometimes, all you need is the right screwdriver bit, some gun oil, and a bit of elbow grease and you can free up most frozen screws without stripping them.

4. Using the same thin bit as in step one, place the bit on either the top of the bottom of the band spring and lightly tap once. You should notice the band spring pop back out at you.

Hope this helps you. Now, show us some pictures so I can drool over a Gewehr 98 year I do not have :D.
 
Thanks Kurgan, I appreciate those kind words.

As for the Gewehr 98, a real beauty with some nice history as well. How did you come across her ?

Numbers matching ? Have a look at the butt plate as well for any repair depot markings.

That front trigger guard screw is really stripped, you weren't kidding about that. It looks like it hasn't been moved in a long time judging by the dirt around the edge of the screw. I would use some penetrating oil and wide but deep screw driver bit and carefully work with it. By the looks of it, you don't have much surface contact area to work with.

A bit of steel wool and some q tips and you can bring her back to a decent level.

You got a Sawback bayonet too you lucky dog you :). Looks to be 1916 dated as well (same as my 98/05) except mine does not have the serrated back. I read that soldiers would either trade the saw backs or "loose" them as you wouldn't want to be captured by the French or British with that type of bayonet. My bayonet is also made by the same company as yours.

Faded markings on the bottom of the pistol grip are common for the Gewehr 98s I have run into. Just goes to show how many times they were gripped and fired. These markings represent one set of fire proof markings that were applied by the factory after the rifle was tested at the factory range.

Sanded stocks are sometimes encountered and it is difficult to tell if it was done by a repair depot during a refurbishment job or post war by a collector. For instance, say the rifle was "dropped" in the field, picked up and sent back and the stock was very dirty and full of nicks and scratches, as far as I have read, the repair depots put out refurbished rifles that were "nearly as good as new ones from the factory". For yours it is difficult to tell, have a look at the bottom of the butt stock toe for the serial number and see if it is faded in the same manner as the pistol grip.

The cartouche markings on the butt stock represent property markings. Even though Germany was unified technically on paper, each state clung to it's own smaller system of awards and procedures. Bavaria is a good example. These cartouche markings will tell, if the stock matches the rifle or is a legitimate rebuild, which state (and ultimately which Army) was issued that rifle. In your case, the first crown represents "FW" or Friedrich Wilhelm and tells you the rifle belonged to the Prussians and was, in most cases, issued to Prussian units. With your date of make, they may be a unit marking on the disc or, if the rifle was sent back for repair by 1916-1918, the markings may have been scrubbed and/or the disc "flipped" or replaced to hide the unit markings. My understanding is that this was done to both hide the unit information from the opposing enemy forces if captured and facilitate easier transfer of weapons between units. Rifle/equipment was unit marked at regimental level as far as I know. Not all rifles and equipment were "sanitized" so you will still come across unit marked Gewehr 98s. I have an example of this on an Amberg made Gewehr 98 stock.

As for the serial number, are there any suffix letters attached to it ? If not, good chance yours is a pre-war made and issued rifle that may have been part of the push into Belgium and into Northern France in August 1914.

Great rifle, Recce, glad you found one that fits for you. You also have a year that I do not have but I am certainly interested in comparing my 1916 Oberndorf with your 1914 to see how the war affected production at Oberndorf's factory.
 
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Oh I also wanted to add how odd it is to see the front lock screw missing from your Oberndorf. I have a 1907 Spandau that, curiously enough, is only missing the front lock screw as well.
 
It looks like it spent some time in a flooded basement just by looking at the wood and metal condition.
With that amount of Corrosion, only an acetylene torch (Heat) would loosen that screw (maybe/maybe not???), but the stock would start on fire.
The Burr marks and Damage on the screw already tell you a previous owner gave up with the Brute Force method and a Bigger Hammer and Screwdriver as it didn't work.
The wood has swelled around the trigger guard/floor plate area, and even if you got the screw out, you would probably damage the stock taking out the TG/FP or loose Big chunks of wood, or crack it.
It's just too fragile and old (97 years) to #### with.
It looks good as a wall hanger the way it is now. How is the Bore?
 
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I've had some success freeing action screws by using a sodering gun to heat the screws after soaking them in a penetrant oil.
 
As for the Gewehr 98, a real beauty with some nice history as well. How did you come across her ?

I bought her off of the EE in January. I bought the matching Garand off the same guy a month later.

Numbers matching ? Have a look at the butt plate as well for any repair depot markings.

All the numbers on the rifle match, including the butt plate, lange sight, screws etc etc. The butt plate has the serial number minus the suffix on the toe and the very top by the screw has the suffix "i". The serial number of the rifle is XX82 i.

As for the serial number, are there any suffix letters attached to it ? If not, good chance yours is a pre-war made and issued rifle that may have been part of the push into Belgium and into Northern France in August 1914.

Serial number is XX82 i. The bolt like I said in my OP matches itself but not the rest of the rifle.

Great rifle, Recce, glad you found one that fits for you. You also have a year that I do not have but I am certainly interested in comparing my 1916 Oberndorf with your 1914 to see how the war affected production at Oberndorf's factory.

Send me a PM with some of our questions and I will email some pictures to you so we can compare. Thanks Nabs for the insight, your are the Gew 98 guru on CGN.
 
OP; Mechanics trick for seized fasteners, soak w/penetrating fluid{automatic transmission fluid mixed 60/40% diesel fuel works best IMO} let it sit over night to let gravity work the fluid to the threads. Next day take a screwdriver that fits best in the faster head and strike the screwdriver smartly with a good deal of force. This action will "jar" the seized threads and allow you to dismantle. If after striking you are able to put a good torque to the head and it still won't budge STOP don't strip the head further. Re-soak w/ penetrant and try again the next day....re-seat screwdriver..strike again. you'll be amazed how well this works,usually the first time:D good luck!....If you feel the need for heat {I don't} I would also recommend a soldering iron....no torch!:(
 
Went out and fired some rounds through it today along with my new to me Garand. 10 rounds of a mild 31 gr. IMR 4064 load I threw together this morning. Most likely the only rounds she will see while I am in possession of her. Very accurate and smooth cycling. As I am always one to brag about all things German due to my Germanic heritage, it amazes me how well engineered and manufactured this 97 jahr old beauty is. But I also have to say, John Garand was one hell of a designer himself as my first time firing a Garand today proved to me.
 
That package must have set your pocket book on fire.

I do hope you do not make your 1914 into a safe queen, she needs range time :D. The only German rifles I have that are mild safe queens are my 71.84s as I have to gather the resources to reload for them. I can't wait to post a range report on those!

I remember you posting a bit of your Germanic heritage in another thread a while back, could you refresh me on what was posted ? If it is WW1 related, perhaps your great grandfather knew mine.
 
That package must have set your pocket book on fire.

I do hope you do not make your 1914 into a safe queen, she needs range time :D. The only German rifles I have that are mild safe queens are my 71.84s as I have to gather the resources to reload for them. I can't wait to post a range report on those!

I remember you posting a bit of your Germanic heritage in another thread a while back, could you refresh me on what was posted ? If it is WW1 related, perhaps your great grandfather knew mine.

Well my grandfather was thrown into an enemy alien camp during WW2 and I have no idea about my great grandfather. That side of my family has all died except for my grandma, father and aunt and no one really knows much about the family history.

My wife's side is better known. I still need to get the official records back from WaSt in Berlin but it was either the 6th or 7th Bavarian Reserve Infantry that my wifes great opa served in, can't remember right now. My wife's opa was in the HJ, Kriegsmarine then was Marine Infantry captured at Festung Saint Nazaire after capitulation on 11 May 45. That is the short version.

As for the Gewehr, I just gave it a bit of a post shooting scrub and oh man, I have opened pandora's box. As soon as I took the bolt apart I found tons of mud in every crevice. Same for the action, I was picking mud, dirt and carbon out of the receiver. I don't have an 8mm brush's so I never got into the bore but from what I can see it has TONS of sharp rifling left. We will see how bright she gets with a trip to Wholesale for brush's and some elbow grease.

Do you know what kind of screwdriver is needed to take the unit disc off? I am curious if there is a unit marked on the underside now.

I'm not a huge fan of guns I can't shoot but I am both a shooter and a collector so it pains me to cause any amount of wear to something I dropped a wad of cash on. But I promise, just like my P38, K98, Gew 88 etc etc, I will put a few rounds down range every year, not a lot, but at least a mag/clip.
 
My wife's side is better known. I still need to get the official records back from WaSt in Berlin but it was either the 6th or 7th Bavarian Reserve Infantry that my wifes great opa served in, can't remember right now.

Well that is interesting, this is the stock disc off my Amberg made stock, you may recognize the unit marking:

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It reads: 6th Bavarian Reserve Infantry regiment, Company number 8, weapon number 54. They were stationed in the center of Bavaria. The stock dates between 1902 and 1913 but I do not have the original matching barreled action to the stock.

My great grandfather joined the German army in 1902 and served all the way to 1918. He was stationed in Metz, Lorriane province when the war began. He was born in Krotoschin, Posen province of East Prussia. I cannot imagine what it must have been like hearing about the Russians advancing into East Prussia in 1914 and having his home town near the front lines.

He was a senior NCO as of April 1914 (Vizefeldwebel IIRC). His pass shows some interesting information and transfers as well. There are mentions of trench duty in 1918. I cannot imagine what that must have been like, being 35 years old and taking care of 16 year old recruits in the front lines. He was posted to the Artillery depot at Koln during the later half of the war. Interestingly enough, that was the location of one of the major repair depots.

I am privileged to own a Gewehr 88 and Gewehr 98 that have Koln repair depot markings on their butt plates. Perhaps he saw the armourers' working on them ?

I watch the movie "All Quiet on the Western Front" and the training school scene near the beginning gives me an impression of what some of his other duties would have been while being in Koln. His pass shows some commendations from his commanding officers over the years as well.

His military pass lists some regiment numbers so I am currently working on plotting them to a map I have of Armee Korp districts so I can follow where he was for most of the war.

I imagine in the pre war years he was trained on both the Gewehr 88 and Gewehr 98. As such, my collection is heavily focused in that area. I am also aware that he carried a Luger P08 with him into WW1 and, in accordance, I recently acquired a 1914 dated Luger. It is one of the center piece's of my collection to honour him.

Well my grandfather was thrown into an enemy alien camp during WW2 and I have no idea about my great grandfather. That side of my family has all died except for my grandma, father and aunt and no one really knows much about the family history.

My wife's side is better known. I still need to get the official records back from WaSt in Berlin but it was either the 6th or 7th Bavarian Reserve Infantry that my wifes great opa served in, can't remember right now. My wife's opa was in the HJ, Kriegsmarine then was Marine Infantry captured at Festung Saint Nazaire after capitulation on 11 May 45. That is the short version.

Very interesting. My grandfather on my father's side was enlisted into the Luftwaffe as a service technican. I saw photos of him working on Ju 88s, He 111s, and near a Fi 156 recon plane. You can pick him out in the group of his comrades right away as he was always the tallest one. The photos must have been circa 1941 summer or 1942 summer as there was a Soviet SB2 medium bomber with it's engine nacelles destroyed to deny it's use to the enemy.

As far as I know, he was stationed near Leningrad for the war. His military pass did not survive as he was forced to destroy the papers in 1944 with the Soviet advance. He was captured but managed to convince his captives he was a Dutch worker forced to work for the Third Reich, having lived in Holland for some time before the war. He was sent back to Holland to face war crimes in 1945 on a series of trains and trucks but when his truck passed near to Koln, he went for a piss break and never came back. He rejoined the family in Koln. They moved to Canada in 1965 and I am one of the first generations on that side of the family in Canada.

I own a few Kar98k examples for his memory as I remember a story where he was part of a target shooting contest where first prize was a turkey. He won and sent the food back home.

My uncle, who was 17 in 1945, was drafted into the Army as a cyclist for an artillery battery. His group was surrounded in February 1945 and he spent the next 3.5 years in a Soviet POW camp. To this day, he lost his hearing in one ear because of an ear infection that was never treated at that camp. He didn't speak much of his time there but he did mention that the blankets felt "alive" at night.

As for the Gewehr, I just gave it a bit of a post shooting scrub and oh man, I have opened pandora's box. As soon as I took the bolt apart I found tons of mud in every crevice. Same for the action, I was picking mud, dirt and carbon out of the receiver. I don't have an 8mm brush's so I never got into the bore but from what I can see it has TONS of sharp rifling left. We will see how bright she gets with a trip to Wholesale for brush's and some elbow grease.

Reminds me of my 1916 Erfurt Gewehr 98. She was a real forgotten rifle, took three days of cleaning to bring her back to being range worthy. You should have seen the bore on her when I first had her. If you look at it now, you would swear it wasn't the same rifle.

Do you know what kind of screwdriver is needed to take the unit disc off? I am curious if there is a unit marked on the underside now.

I had to use a home made device. Essentially, it is a fork that has the two outer prongs bent up and away from the stock (provides a bit of a finger rest) and the two in the middle pushed away from each other that it just fits the stock disc screw with some tension. I advise caution with this as one wrong slip of the hand and you may nick your stock. The screws on my stock discs turn counter clock wise when holding the stock facing muzzle end to your right side.

The next thing I did was get a screw driver and added a bit with a very thin and narrow square type fixture and placed it just under the disc through the exposed screw hole, tilted to one side. The last thing is to take a hammer and gently tap the screw driver base towards the stock. You will see the disc slowly lift up and eventually it will pop out. Again, take your time with this as the walnut stock may have shrunk in this area so it will be a tight fit. As with the first step, be very careful as you may nick your stock if you are not careful. I have checked the discs on my Gewehr 98s where the disc was sitting above the wood line and could be removed relatively easily or where the wood showed older signs of the disc being flipped. With my 1916 Oberndorf, it is tempting, but I have decided never to remove the disc as the wood stock is near perfect condition over all.

A few of the discs came up blank on either side for some of my Gewehr 98s (even my 1905 Danzig) so be prepared to have no unit markings.

But I promise, just like my P38, K98, Gew 88 etc etc, I will put a few rounds down range every year, not a lot, but at least a mag/clip.

What Gewehr 88 do you have ? I am curious now :). I am hunting for an Amberg marked Gewehr 88 or 98 but with a preference towards a Gewehr 88. I know they are out there but I can never seem to stumble upon them.
 
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What Gewehr 88 do you have ? I am curious now :). I am hunting for an Amberg marked Gewehr 88 or 98 but with a preference towards a Gewehr 88. I know they are out there but I can never seem to stumble upon them.

I have a 1890 Amberg Gew 88, all matching except the bolt which is a czech replacment. Unit marked with no X'd out previous unit markings. Unit is B 10 R R 2 50. It is in mint shape but has a turked sight ladder. No other turk marks anywhere on it.
 
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