Kaufman webley In .455

northmedic2075

northmedic2075

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Hello gang
Been a long time since I posted on here . I have a 455 kaufman webley which from the data still out there may be number 4 off of the second run > as kaufman only worked with Webley from 1878 to 1881 its likely over 112 years old . I am looking for information on a antique firearms appraiser In BC . thanks for your time .

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northmedic2075 said:
Hello gang
Been a long time since I posted on here . I have a 455 kaufman webley which from the data still out there may be number 4 off of the second run > as kaufman only worked with Webley from 1878 to 1881 its likely over 112 years old .
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I honestly don't much about Kaufman, will have to look into my books.

I do know that if it's marked as 455 it would be likely newer than you think, that cartridge did not start making it's rounds until about 1887.
 
apu said:
I honestly don't much about Kaufman, will have to look into my books.

I do know that if it's marked as 455 it would be likely newer than you think, that cartridge did not start making it's rounds until about 1887.
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The pistol is not marked as 455 It is only marked with the triangle with the styilized MK in it standing for Michael Kaufman and the number 168 which as per webley documents is in the second run as well as the birgingham proof house marks. the second run is from serial 164 to 1225 only approx 1400 to 1500 units of all 3 runs where ever made.
 
Looks re-plated which will lower the value. How is it mechanically? If it's otherwise perfect I'd say $1,500 to $2,000. That said, I would not spend that money for a re-plated Webley style revolver as you can get a very nice original Webley for that kind of money.
 
scianna54 said:
Looks re-plated which will lower the value quite dramatically. How is it mechanically? If it's otherwise perfect I'd say $1,500 to $2,000.
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It has not been re plated some of the plating is coming off tip of barrel and near the cylinder and is in near New condition mechanically I have owned it over 16 years now and the owner prior to me had in a case since the 1920 or so .. Just a nice pistol that I want to value correctly for insurance reason.

Maybe sell one never knows
 
How is the bore? With a minty bore that gun would be hard to part with for 1500.

How long is that cylinder? Is it a .476?
 
Non re-plated, probably a lot more than $2,000 for the right buyer, but that's hard to say without seeing the gun in hand, the actual condition of the plating, eye appeal etc. Of course the market is a lot thinner above that $2,000 mark plus as said before plating doesn't appeal to everybody.
 
The Webley Kaufman is properly called the Webley Improved Government Model. It is the predecessor to the Webley WG 1889.

Michael Kaufman worked for Webley from 1878 to 1881, during which time he obtained patents for an improved lock mechanism, among others. Some of these patented features were later used in the Webley Improved Government Model, aka the Webley Kaufman. Because Kaufman owned the patents, Webley paid Kaufman royalties for every Webley Improved Government Model they sold.

The first WIG appeared in 1882 or 1883. These revolvers would have been .455" bore and chambered for .476 Enfield or .450 Adams, although it is possible a few of the later ones could also have been chambered in .455 Webley. Production continued until approx 1888/89, when the WIG was superceded by the Webley WG 1889.

The WIG bears the webley trademarks and serial number and should also have the initials M-K joined by a diamond and a second number that is a royalty number, signifying a royalty payment to Kaufman.

IMO - this model is worth about what we see the Webley WG models going for. If the finish is original it would be worth about $1500 - $2000 in NRA Antique Fine-Excellent condition. There MIGHT be a die-hard webley collector willing to pay a bit more for an original premium condition Webley Kaufman.

If the finish is not original then it is worth $1200-$1800 as a shooter if it is in VG to Exc mechanical condition.

A competent firearms appraiser should be able to give you a figure based on researching advertised prices. For instance there is a Webley Kaufman advertised on Guns America site for $2495 that's been there for a few months. That one might be more desireable to collectors because it is a blued finish.
 
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So it appears your gun is chambered for Enfield MK I-II .455(MKIII was .476 and will likely also fit this gun) not to be confused with the Webley .455 caliber. The Kaufman model featured double action, breaktop with rebounding hammer action. Pryse model preceeded it and Kaufman patents would form the basis for future Webleys.

You have an interesting firearm likely more attractive to the serious Webley collector. I think you are looking at a value in $2500 range.
 
Funny that you asked and now list it for $3,800! I looked at the gun at the gun show in Chilliwack and there was not much interest for it. The plating looks original, however I had the feeling that the barrel was replated? Personally I am used to plating on SAA Colts but I don't like it on Webleys. I guess the question about the value was not for insurance reasons, ...
 
scianna54 said:
Funny that you asked and now list it for $3,800! I looked at the gun at the gun show in Chilliwack and there was not much interest for it. The plating looks original, however I had the feeling that the barrel was replated? Personally I am used to plating on SAA Colts but I don't like it on Webleys. I guess the question about the value was not for insurance reasons, ...
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Yes it was For Insurance Reason which is now Updated . As for replated No it has not thanks for looking. And interest In was very good Had 2 serious Offers.
 
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Well to be fair to the Orignal poster guys, he was told to insure it for $4000 from a webley expert in the USA.
Its a very rare gun in EX condition its not replated or had anything done to it.
the price is hi for what guys up here will pay but he might get $3800 for it in the USA or England maby up here to just depends on the collector.

Its a very rare gun.
 
Webley Kaufmann Model 1880​
A top break, hinged-frame double-action revolver chambered
for the .450 centerfire cartridge, with a 5.75" barrel and a
curved bird’s-head butt. Blued, with walnut grips.​
Exc. V.G. Good Fair Poor​
2300 1000 800 — —

thats what my antique book has. but that is for the blued one.

i am sure it will sell for his asking price.
 
Actually I wasn't trying to be a smarty pants, but it does kinda appear that way now that I read it. sorry

The reason for my comment was that I passed on a really nice Webley Improved Government for about half that price a while back. Maybe I screwed up.
 
I think all the webleys are going up in value.
There a good investment there not makeing anymore of them.. ;)
That Kaufman is one of the best ones ive seen and the fact its in Canada already is easy to buy,
 
It was at the table next to me. It didn't look replated, it's condition looked near pristine.
I didn't want to handle it, for fear of damaging it in some way.
A wonderful piece of history in, very good+ condition. KD
 
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