Walther P-22 CATASTROPHIC FAILURE!

bollox said:
I don't like it when manufacturers use 'pot-metal' in guns.Is it die cast? I am not a metalurgist. That is why I stayed away from the GSG, I have a feeling that some of these issues may crop with it also.
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Die cast guns have been used in Europe for many years BUT only for cheap blank firing guns and started pistols. When I first saw die cast slides on real firearms, even though they are .22's, I was quite surprised. A die cast alloy metal has no redeeming qualities other than cheapness. I don't believe that die cast metal (rich in zinc) can be heat treated and it lacks the "elasticity" of a properly alloyed aluminum so over time it will break starting at the point of largest stress. I guess for occasional use they may last a long time but who buys a fun .22 pistol to use it sparingly? I said before and will say it again: we are being sold crappy pistols by "reputable" gun firms because we want o buy cheap. So, Walther and Sig contract some manufacturer who can produce them cheaply and then we ##### when they break! After two miserable Mosquitoe's, I learn my lesson that I should have known from the beginning. As for the GSI pistols, only time will tell but....
 
yan014 said:
...we were both happy that we always wear our ballistic glasses... He did not get injured...I immediately called Walther USA and we'll see what will happen on Monday(the international sales clerk was away). Anyways, they sell the complete slide assembly for about 47$...
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:cool:

I can't wait for the M&P22.
 
Miltiades said:
Die cast guns have been used in Europe for many years BUT only for cheap blank firing guns and started pistols. When I first saw die cast slides on real firearms, even though they are .22's, I was quite surprised. A die cast alloy metal has no redeeming qualities other than cheapness. I don't believe that die cast metal (rich in zinc) can be heat treated and it lacks the "elasticity" of a properly alloyed aluminum so over time it will break starting at the point of largest stress. I guess for occasional use they may last a long time but who buys a fun .22 pistol to use it sparingly? I said before and will say it again: we are being sold crappy pistols by "reputable" gun firms because we want o buy cheap. So, Walther and Sig contract some manufacturer who can produce them cheaply and then we ##### when they break! After two miserable Mosquitoe's, I learn my lesson that I should have known from the beginning. As for the GSI pistols, only time will tell but....
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It seems that people want .22LR pistols with a full slide and centerfire look. I think there's a reason .22 pistols that are reliable and robust only move a small fraction of the slide back (Buckmark, Ruger MKIII just moves the bolt, Beretta NEOS, S&W 41, etc.).
But when people started demanding more and more 'realism' to their guns, they wanted the whole slide to come back like a centerfire, so they had to make the slide light enough to cycle from a .22, hence a lot of thin, cheap metals being used.

That's my take on it, I could be dead wrong.
 
good lord! i would call that a catasrophic failure. it did not cause injury thankfully!

i know someone who is interested in a walther P22, and i will show him this.

how many rounds on through the gun? age?
 
@ Jahred.F
i know someone who is interested in a walther P22, and i will show him this.

how many rounds on through the gun? age?
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I have the pistol for about 8 months. I'm the second owner and I have no idea how many rounds the previous owner put through it. The gun has been made in 2006 according to the dude at Walther. Since I have it, I put close to 20000-25000 rounds.. YES around 25 000 rounds. I shoot it ALL THE TIME.

Don't get me wrong, it is a GREAT pistol.. it is just that s**t happen sometimes!! Even with what just happened, I would NEVER HESITATE TO BUY ANOTHER ONE. And also, if Walther tells me that it'll take more than 1 month to get my slide, i will buy a new one in the meantime. That's how I love it.. especially my wife!!
 
evilhaze said:
Wow.
Honestly, who would sell a gun like that? There is so little material making up that slide. it's .090" thick max. Aluminum at that!!
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Actually, not even aluminum...it's cast zinc (a.k.a. pot metal!!) As the other poster said, this is a common occurrence with the P22.
 
yan014 said:
@ Jahred.F

I have the pistol for about 8 months. I'm the second owner and I have no idea how many rounds the previous owner put through it. The gun has been made in 2006 according to the dude at Walther. Since I have it, I put close to 20000-25000 rounds.. YES around 25 000 rounds. I shoot it ALL THE TIME.

Don't get me wrong, it is a GREAT pistol.. it is just that s**t happen sometimes!! Even with what just happened, I would NEVER HESITATE TO BUY ANOTHER ONE. And also, if Walther tells me that it'll take more than 1 month to get my slide, i will buy a new one in the meantime. That's how I love it.. especially my wife!!
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Here is the thing, the P-22 has way over lemon rate and that is why some love it and some hated it, I got the 2nd gen which suppose a lot of problems resolved and mine don't have feeding problem but fall apart everytime after a hundreds round or so and the slide chip off a small chunk after eight hundred rounds, traded it after fix and for the rest of my life, Walther P22 will not enter my stable period.

Trigun
 
mr00jimbo said:
It seems that people want .22LR pistols with a full slide and centerfire look. I think there's a reason .22 pistols that are reliable and robust only move a small fraction of the slide back (Buckmark, Ruger MKIII just moves the bolt, Beretta NEOS, S&W 41, etc.).
But when people started demanding more and more 'realism' to their guns, they wanted the whole slide to come back like a centerfire, so they had to make the slide light enough to cycle from a .22, hence a lot of thin, cheap metals being used.

That's my take on it, I could be dead wrong.
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Good point. The .22LR round does not produce enough energy to reliably cycle a steel slide. Guns like P22 and Mosquito are a textbook example of form over function.
 
bollox said:
I don't like it when manufacturers use 'pot-metal' in guns.Is it die cast? I am not a metalurgist. That is why I stayed away from the GSG, I have a feeling that some of these issues may crop with it also.
Click to expand...

Theres nothing wrong with pot metal(zamac) as long as you use enough of it. Theres a gun made over in Ohio called Hipoint and it had a big and bulky Zamac slide and it works fine with 9mm+P, .40 and .45. I've had one and my cousins have a couple of them and they have put a few thousand rounds through both with no issues.
 
That is catastrophic failure.
This seems like a common theme with p22's.

I would not shoot that model if it was offered to me for free.

I don't think zinc alloy has a place in firearm manufacturing.
 
capp325 said:
Good point. The .22LR round does not produce enough energy to reliably cycle a steel slide. Guns like P22 and Mosquito are a textbook example of form over function.
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Both observations are correct, they increase the mass of the slide to make it look "tactical" or tutn it into a center-fire look alike but they used thin enough die cast material to keep the mass in the reasonable range for .22 lr and the result is quite predictable. Now, Sig, when they make their own P226 in .22 lr or their conversion units, what did they do? Full slide but made of aluminum. Most if not all of the 1911 conversion units are also of aluminum because it's light weight to ensure reliability and it takes repeated blows and stresses far better than die cast metal. But, it costs more to produce. So, yes, full slide contributes to the fragility problem but the long established solution of alumimum alloy was rejected to save costs.
 
These pistols have so many defects and problems, my friend gunshop stop selling them! And for a buisness man to stop selling you a product, it must be defective as hell! Dale Z!
 
So these pictures stuck me as odd when I first looked at them and I now know why. The front sight post is supposed to be on the slide extension piece on a Canadian version with the 5" barrel, yet in the pics it is back on the main part of the slide where it should only be if you are using the 3.5" barrel. Now, there is no way it came that way so someone has been fiddling. What happened here? Why this discrepancy?

FWIW - I have a P22 and it is one of the best 22LRs I have ever owned/shot. I have friends with converted Siggs, Mosquitos, Rugers, etc. and while they all performed acceptably (except for the 226 Sigg that F2Fs more times than I can count) the P22 ranks up there as my favourite - no failures, no jams and excellent accuracy with at least 2K rds through it to date.
 
Sadbash said:
That is catastrophic failure.
This seems like a common theme with p22's.

I would not shoot that model if it was offered to me for free.

I don't think zinc alloy has a place in firearm manufacturing.
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I agree, zinc is useless. Now if they substituted tin instead, at least if we had a catastrophic failure we could still use the firearm to make good bullet alloy. :cool:
 
Miltiades said:
Die cast guns have been used in Europe for many years BUT only for cheap blank firing guns and started pistols....
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During the 70's and the 80's, the German firm Erma made a lot of pot metal alloy rimfire firearms of all kind...

For the particular failure of this thread, a poor quality control might be the cause too... poor engineering or material mignt not be alone the reasons.

EX
 
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