44 spec crimp?? yes or no

m777

m777

CGN frequent flyer
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
399   0   0
Location
winnipeg
Trying to put together some 44 spec with a 44 mag RCBS die, "44 spec" crossed off on box, but the die isn't long enough. Guessing I need an extended shell holder??? If so any idea where? Stopped in at WSS in Wpg and no luck. Do I need to crimp?
Thanks
Clint
 
"...If you don't crimp, chances are accuracy will be unattainable..." Rubbish. A crimp is detrimental to accuracy.
"...44 Spec with a 44 mag RCBS die..." Hi. You using .44 Special brass? Loading .44 Special brass in a .44 Magnum die is just like loading a .38 Special in a .357 Mag die. Needs a spacer(big holed washer) under the die to adjust for the shorter case length. Has nothing to do with the shell holder. There's no such thing as an extended shell holder anyway.
You will save yourself a lot of grief by loading Magnum cases to Special velocities though. Especially if you're using cast bullets. Makes the lube gunk ring in the cylinders go away.
 
m777 said:
Trying to put together some 44 spec with a 44 mag RCBS die, "44 spec" crossed off on box, but the die isn't long enough. Guessing I need an extended shell holder??? If so any idea where? Stopped in at WSS in Wpg and no luck. Do I need to crimp?
Thanks
Clint
Click to expand...

Place a case in the shellholder, advance the ram all the way. Screw in the die. Will the crimping shoulder in the die make contact with the case mouth? Does the die contact the shellholder without the crimping shoulder contacting the case mouth? Or is the relationship of your die, press and shellholder such that the case simply cannot be brought into contact? There are extended shellholders made for certain specialized operations, I suspect an extended .44 shellholder may simply be non-existant. A roll crimp is very commonly used with rimmed handgun cartridges - keeps the bullets from moving foreward under recoil, and causing the cylinder to hang up.
 
Way back when I bought .44 mag. dies from RCBS, they came with such a washer, and yes, the .44 Spl. needs a good roll crimp or you'll tie up your revolver....IMHO
 
The original post stated the "44 Spec. was crossed off the box--"
I presume it was crossed off because the spacer was no longer in the box.
This spacer represents the difference in length between the 44 mag brass and the 44 Special brass.
I just measured the spacer in my RCBS set of dies, with a Millers Falls micrometer and the spacer is .116" thick.
If you want to load 44 Spec brass you will require a spacer of that thickness to place under your dies.
 
1. I have the die screwed down as far as it will go and no crimp. Ran a mag brass through it and it seemed get just a little too much crimped. Casing length difference I believe is 0.12"

2. I use Hornady set for 38 spl/357mag that is completely different then the RCBS.

3. I don't get how/where that washer will make the die "shorter".

4.If I use the magnum cases loaded to special, which OAL do I use?

5. "No such thing as an extended shell holder"... No offense but
http://ca.wholesalesports.com/store...holders/extended-shell-holders/prod87495.html
... which is #18 fitting 44 mag

Thanks
Clint
 
Let's start all over again. Here in BC it was still morning and not enough coffee when I posted.
For the 44 Spec. just screw the dies right down, adjusting the locking ring to get it right. For the seating/crimping die, adjust it to give the desired crimp, then set the locking ring.
The spacer that comes with the set is just for convenience. Install the spacer and a 44 mag case will have the same amount of crimp.
I never loaded 44 Special brass, so just adjusted the locking rings for mag brass.
I loaded both 38 Special and 357 mag brass, so adjusted the dies for 38, then used the spacer for 357.
Sorry, in the fog of my first posting I had it backwards.
 
The spacer makes more sense now. But no spacer in kit. I have the locking ring as high as it can be, thus the die is as far down into the press as it can go. So am I SOL on loading the 44 spec brass?

sorry just getting into reloading. Done some, but not a lot. made some 38 spl's and 41 mag with no issues yet.
Clint
 
I loaded 38 special cases in 357 dies, but I had the crimp die shortened enough so that I could get a crimp on the shorter case. Had to readjust for the magnum case. You might check to see if your crimp die or seating/crimp die if you have a 2 die set has been so modified.
 
m777 said:
The spacer makes more sense now. But no spacer in kit. I have the locking ring as high as it can be, thus the die is as far down into the press as it can go. So am I SOL on loading the 44 spec brass?
Clint
Click to expand...

The spacer is just for the magnum length cases and as I stated, for convenience only.
You say you have the die down as far as it will go. This should mean that when the ram is full up, the die should be against the shell holder. Is this what you mean?
This is the seating die we are talking about, so are you sure it is also a crimping die?
Usually, the crimp wanted will be achieved with the die not quite touching the shell holder. In other words, if the die is down to where it touches, or hits, the shell holder, it will give too much crimp.
With everything starting from scratch, this is the usual way to do it. Leave the seating die well clear of the shell holder, when the ram is full up.
Start a bullet in the case and slowly push the handle down. When the bullet makes contact with die, push it a bit more, then take your new cartridge out and look at it. Decide what groove you want to crimp into, and keep adjusting the top screw, down a bit, push the bullet in, then remove and examin the cartridge. Keep doing this until the top of the case is even with the top of the crimping groove.
Now, unscrew the top adjusting screw, to give lots of space between it and the bullet.
If the loaded case now goes in the die with no pressure, it is not crimping. So, adjust the die a little deeper, you should feel pressure as it starts to crimp. Examine the case and adjust the die until the desired crimp is achieved. Tightly lock the adjusting ring, so the die can be removed and replaced in the exact same position.
Now, final step. Put the loaded case in the die, push and hold the lever full down. Turn the top adjusting screw down, until it hits the bullet. Lock the top adjusting screw.
You are now ready to seat and crimp the bullets in one quick stroke. You should examine the first round and if it is not crimped in the perfect spot, make tiny adjustments to get it just right.
Assuming this was 44 Special brass you adjusted for, you could now remove the die and place the spacer (which I know you do not have) over the die and srew the die down tight. With the same bullets, they will now seat exactly the same place in the 44 magnum brass. Without the spacer, the die must be completely readjusted to fit the longer brass case.
 
So with the die all the way down, thus the ram not getting the full stroke up, no crimp happening on the 44spec casing, but the 44 mag casing is getting crimped.

So I'm SOL then?..... or

Is there a way to "lower" the crimp?
 
Triple7, call RCBS. Theri customer service will know what you need, know if it is still in productin, and send it to you - sometimes without charge. And, they will explain how to use it.

All from the folks who know.
 
m777 said:
So with the die all the way down, thus the ram not getting the full stroke up, no crimp happening on the 44spec casing, but the 44 mag casing is getting crimped.

So I'm SOL then?..... or

Is there a way to "lower" the crimp?
Click to expand...

I just can not figure it out. Did RCBS ever make a die for 44 mag, only and not able to load (crimp) 44 Special in it?
I think you would have to compare your dies, side by side, with the normal set, to see if there was a difference.
Is there anyone on here who could solve the problem!
 
Brutus said:
If you don't crimp, chances are accuracy will be unattainable.
You also run the danger of bullets being setback in the cases while they turn in the cylinder from recoil, boosting pressures well above normal.
Click to expand...

In my limited revolver experience with .44 Mag, the bullets don't get set into the brass, they get pulled out and stick out of the cylinder, tieing up the action. Bullet setback occurs in tube mag rifles where the bullet bears on the brass of the round in front of it.

Mark
 
mmattockx said:
In my limited revolver experience with .44 Mag, the bullets don't get set into the brass, they get pulled out and stick out of the cylinder, tieing up the action. Bullet setback occurs in tube mag rifles where the bullet bears on the brass of the round in front of it.

Mark
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right friend. I had my 624 do this when I was not careful enough to apply an adequate crimp. Locked cylinder up good and tight for a bit.

forgot about it......
 
m777 said:
1. I have the die screwed down as far as it will go and no crimp. Ran a mag brass through it and it seemed get just a little too much crimped. Casing length difference I believe is 0.12"

2. I use Hornady set for 38 spl/357mag that is completely different then the RCBS.

3. I don't get how/where that washer will make the die "shorter".

4.If I use the magnum cases loaded to special, which OAL do I use?

5. "No such thing as an extended shell holder"... No offense but
http://ca.wholesalesports.com/store...holders/extended-shell-holders/prod87495.html
... which is #18 fitting 44 mag

Thanks
Clint
Click to expand...

I just bought RCBS 44mag carbide dies. its for both the the 44mag and the 44 special.
The ring that came with it is .125" thick the exact difference between an over all case length of a 44mag and 44 special. If I crimp and set the bullet seater for a 44 special I need to use the ring.

Now anyone reading this do I need a crimp for my 44mag target loads or not, I have talked to two 44mag owners one says crimp or I will get blowby, the other says don't crimp. NOt sure if I should or shouldn't crimp the 44 mag target loads. And what about hunting loads crimp or don't crimp?
 
H4831: Yes RCBS did make dies specific to 44 mag,also specific to 357 mag. I had this conflict with RCBS dies purchased in the early 60's. It is necessary to shorten whichever die body in these sets effect the crimp if you want to use the shorter standard 44 Special or 38 special cases. The sizing dies generally work fine for either length and if memory serves there is enough adjustment in the case belling die to do either if it is a 3 die set..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom