Gun companies balk at US Army's new requirement

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The Army has a new leap-ahead challenge for gun makers — build an improved carbine that fires so fast it can put two bullets through the same hole.

Small arms companies are already balking at the “hyper burst” requirement the Army wants as a feature on potential replacements for the M4 carbine. It’s not specifically identified in the draft solicitation the service released in late January, but Col. Doug Tamilio, the head of Project Manager Soldier Weapons told me the Army wants a weapon with hyper burst.

Apparently, putting two bullets through the same hole could potentially penetrate some types of foriegn body armor more effectively and incapacitate a foe more quickly.

Officials from Heckler and Koch, Remington Arms Company, LWRC International, Knight’s Armament Company and others told me that they know of no company in the U.S. that’s has this capability.

Gun makers are describing it with phrases like “That’s a significant requirement.” and “It’s not going to happen.” My favorite is from a Remington official who said “It’s just silly.”

The only company that seems to have it is Izhmach, a Russian arms company that produces the AN94. The AN94 has a burst mode that fires at a rate of 1800 rounds per minute.

The Russians, who are notorious for over-selling their weapons, boast that the AN94 can put a two-round burst through the same bullet hole at 100 meters.

Experts from the small arms community maintain that the AN94, which was fielded to Russian forces in limited numbers in 1994, is not that impressive. Its an extremely complex system that relies on the barrel assembly recoiling reward when the weapon is fired. Those who have fired it say it jams more than it works.

http://kitup.military.com/2011/03/army-wants-hyper-burst-in-improved-carbine.html#more-3313
 
My savage puts more than 2 bullets in the same hole. LOL

An automatic weapon doing this is beyond the current realm of possibilities if you ask me at least if we are talking a 2 round burst.

Single fire maybe but cmon this is just silly.
 
Very interesting... I always thought that the USM would move towards a larger cartridge to achieve their goals (of armour penetration and incapacitation) rather than just doubling up on the same old. Wouldn't it be cost-ineffective?
 
Maybe the metal storm could do it? Part way through the video they show a pistol sized contraption.

[YouTube]8DRmuljq9yw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/YouTube]
 
Very interesting... I always thought that the USM would move towards a larger cartridge to achieve their goals (of armour penetration and incapacitation) rather than just doubling up on the same old. Wouldn't it be cost-ineffective?

I would think of looking along the same lines as why FMJ isn't allowed for hunting. An FMJ .308 would go cleanly through the target would it not, where a .223 FMJ might ricochet off a bone and cause more massive internal damage?
 
Bah, just put two bullets in the same case. duh.

:)
Duplex cartridges are an old concept dating back to the Second World War. They are nowhere near accurate enough to put both bullets through the same hole at any reasonable distance, and each bullet is less than half the weight of a full sized one which negates the benefit of a heavier cartridge.
 
putting two bullets through the same hole is MARKSMANSHIP, NOT SPEED- i should imagine some members on this board can do it- done it myself on various occasions, but PURE LUCK more than ability-
 
putting two bullets through the same hole is MARKSMANSHIP, NOT SPEED- i should imagine some members on this board can do it- done it myself on various occasions, but PURE LUCK more than ability-

They mean in automatic fire. And it IS a matter of speed. Two rounds in the same hole in automatic fire requires a gun that weighs a huge amount, or has virtually 0 recoil force, or a gun that can shoot the burst fast enough that the user has not began to feel the recoil of the first round (hence the barrel is still on target for the second round of the burst).
 
putting two bullets through the same hole is MARKSMANSHIP, NOT SPEED- i should imagine some members on this board can do it- done it myself on various occasions, but PURE LUCK more than ability-

Except Marksmenship takes TIME usually. The article is pretty much the US wanting a gun that can put two rounds through the same hole one right behind the other before the target has a chance to shift.

Think of shooting at a moving target which is also SHOOTING back at you. Do you want to take the time to fire once and then try to aim at the exact same spot again? :p
 
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