Was wondering if you CGNer's could help me out. I purchased a Norc M4 a few days ago and took it up to the range to zero her in today. Well long story short, it goes boom, but then fails to feed and fails to extract. i thought maybe it was not properly lubed. Tore the bolt right down, lubed up in the right places and same faults. So my buddy who was with me suggested we change bolts to see if he has the same faults. His Imperial Defence bolt ran fine no stoppages at all. I then put my bolt in his m4 and sure enough the same problems occur. what could this be? Gas problems within the bolt carrier? this happens with all types of mags and both .223 and 5.56mm. Thanks for you help.
Norc M4 Problems
- Thread starter BaccaX
- Start date
Check the gas key area and compare overall dimensions with your friend's BCG to see what may be off-spec. Does the bolt slide in and out easily in the upper receiver? Another area to look for problems are the lugs on the bolt itself. Both FTF and FTE symptoms make me suspect the lugs but without visual inspection is hard to make a clear diagnosis.
Any chance you have your bolt assembly in upside down? The ejector should be at 4 o'clock And the extractor at 10 o'clock when looking at it straight on.
That would be the first thing I would look at as that would be exactly how the rifle would behave, plus it's a typical mistake for someone who is new to AR's
That would be the first thing I would look at as that would be exactly how the rifle would behave, plus it's a typical mistake for someone who is new to AR's
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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You really need to put some more effort into describing the problem if we are to diagnose this from afar.
Extraction and feeding happen at the opposite ends of the stroke. From your description should I assume the carrier travels its full stroke, but leaves the fired case stuck in the chamber, then strips a new round that hits the case that is still in the chamber, stopping the carrier at a partially rearward position? Or does the round fail even to strip, stopping the carrier at a nearly fully rearward position? Or, does the carrier not move at all, thus not even trying to extract the old case or strip a new cartridge?
Extraction and feeding happen at the opposite ends of the stroke. From your description should I assume the carrier travels its full stroke, but leaves the fired case stuck in the chamber, then strips a new round that hits the case that is still in the chamber, stopping the carrier at a partially rearward position? Or does the round fail even to strip, stopping the carrier at a nearly fully rearward position? Or, does the carrier not move at all, thus not even trying to extract the old case or strip a new cartridge?
I did compare all parts and made sure it was put together with both of my friend's BCG and everything seemed fine. And as far as i know, the whole staggering the gas rings is a myth (which were in fact staggered anyways). When i pull the trigger and the shot goes off i have a stoppage. I look to see the position of the bolt as i have been trained, and its closed. I manually rack the bolt, which at times is extremely difficult to do, chamber another round, squeeze the trigger and nothing happens. I then rack the bolt again, and notice no round is chambered. Again i will say that its not ammunition or magazines as there were no problems using my friend's bolt in my rifle. I must say that it was difficult to rack my friend's rifle when this stoppage problem occurred using my bolt in his rifle.
Hah,
the only typicality here is armchair commanding. The cam pin cannot be inserted through the bolt if the bolt is installed bass ackwards in the carrier. The cam pin can only be inserted from one side of the bolt. The correct side.pictures of the BCG, if different angles needed please ask.
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/2beecc3f.jpg
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/e7824837.jpg
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/1c4889f8.jpg
Cheers
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/2beecc3f.jpg
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/e7824837.jpg
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/baccax/1c4889f8.jpg
Cheers
Do you have an M16 firing pin installed in an AR15 early style non shrouded carrier. An M16 firing pin has a wider diameter collar and combined with an early style non shrouded carrier, it will jam on the hammer.
I discovered this issue with a gun brought in with the carrier jammed half way in the buffer tube and half in the upper receiver not wanting to move in, nor out. It had a non shrouded SP1 carrier with an M16 firing pin. Had to remove the buttstock to get it to move. Changed the firing pin to an AR15 FP and all was well.
I discovered this issue with a gun brought in with the carrier jammed half way in the buffer tube and half in the upper receiver not wanting to move in, nor out. It had a non shrouded SP1 carrier with an M16 firing pin. Had to remove the buttstock to get it to move. Changed the firing pin to an AR15 FP and all was well.
Hah,
You couldn't be more wrong, I would think someone who has as many posts as you would know what they are talking about..
I'll take a couple of pics asap, but I'm having trouble getting out of my chair...
Ahahahaa ...
here ya go smart guy, now get back in your armchair...And I don't think I'll apologize on this one...
the right way 10 and 4
the wrong way
not all ar bolts are the same, and if you actually know what your talking about "easy" then you should know that
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That was big of you to admit Easy but I think you were a little harsh on the armchair commando comment. if you own high end gear you probably won't see this very often.. But they are out there and I've seen it a dozen times at the range where a fella new to AR's gets all excited, cleans and lubes his rifle then puts the bolt assembly in upside down. They get to the range, put in a magazine then give a good pull on the charging handle and ......boom! Click click click..." what the %#!?"
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I've come to the conclusion to go after market. I know the Norc is fairly decent, but you get what you pay for. All in all this rifle is awesome and has decent accuracy but a few mods to make er that much better is in the works. When I used the Imperial Defence BCG it ran so smooth and with no hickups. So Perhaps that and a BCM tactical charging handle will make it that much better. Again thanks for you help.
if anyone cares here is what Ive done so far:
if anyone cares here is what Ive done so far:
There is a known issue with the 'new' Norcs (current ones) whereby part of the BCG (gas key??)-I'm working from memory at 2:00 am - isn't drilled through. Check the BCG for machining errors, comparing it to the Imperial. This is one of the few real issues with these rifles. There was a thread on here a little while ago about this, but damned if I can find it now. If that's what it is it's a warranty issue.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago but I could not find it in a quick search. The user had a problem with the gas key like enefgee said and returned it for warranty. Talk to your dealer.
However, if you really want to just go with a NA BCG to replace yours, send me a PM. I have one that I will be posting on EE soon. There may be others on EE already too.
However, if you really want to just go with a NA BCG to replace yours, send me a PM. I have one that I will be posting on EE soon. There may be others on EE already too.
