Favourite Webley loads?

[Bowie]

I am familiar with the oft quoted 5 grains of Unique behind a soft cast 265 grain hollowbased bullet, (although I prefer closer to 4 grains myself), however I find Unique somewhat dirty.
Anyone care to share their favourite loads?

 

[jethunter]

What brass are you talking about? .455 Webley MKI, .455 webley MKII, or .45acp/autorim?

It matters.

 

[Bowie]

.455 mark II Hornady cases.

 

[jethunter]

I'd suggest using 4.5 gr of unique in the MKII cartridge. Light loads of Unique will leave more residue.

I run 4.7 gr Unique in my MKII cartridges and 5.0 gr Unique in the .45AR using .265 gr bullets. Most powders suitable for the MKII cartridge will leave residue at these low pressures.

 

[Bowie]

Anyone try powders other than unique?

 

[Brobee]

I use 3.2 grains of trailboss in my .450cf antiques....

 

[DEZ]

I use 5.5-5.8 grs of blue dot in MKII cases and a 250gr bullet

 

[Rob 22]

MkII Case 250g RNFP Cast 3.0g Bullseye Light and accurate in both my webley and Smith handejector

 

[762mm]

I don't know about using 5.0gr of Unique behind a 265gr bullet in a Webley... as the heavier the bullet, the more impact it will have on pressure spikes.

For 45 ACP, Lyman's pistol & revolver handbook lists a starting load of 5.0gr of Unique behind a 200gr cast semi-wadcutter for a total pressure of 7,700 psi and 670 fps (and this is where you're best to stay for safety reasons). For the same caliber & bullet, a max load of 7.5gr of Unique is said to yield 16,600 psi and 980 fps (already in the "too-hot-for-comfort" danger zone). For safety reasons, you should never exceed 12,000 psi in any medium & large frame antique.

It is important to note that nowhere does the Lyman manual give any loads for a 265gr cast bullet (neither in 45ACP or 45AR)... so you may want to tread carefully with this kind of a heavy slug, as it is approx 30%+ heavier than what is listed (and may be dangerous in conjunction with the kind of loads you're referring to). A 265gr bullet should be probably propelled by 4.5 of Unique MAX, unless you have some solid & reliable data to prove otherwise (note: the fact that your gun hasn't blown up yet doesn't count! Think micro-fissures...).

 

[jethunter]

I don't know about using 5.0gr of Unique behind a 265gr bullet in a Webley... as the heavier the bullet, the more impact it will have on pressure spikes.

For 45 ACP, Lyman's pistol & revolver handbook lists a starting load of 5.0gr of Unique behind a 200gr cast semi-wadcutter for a total pressure of 7,700 psi and 670 fps (and this is where you're best to stay for safety reasons). For the same caliber & bullet, a max load of 7.5gr of Unique is said to yield 16,600 psi and 980 fps (already in the "too-hot-for-comfort" danger zone). For safety reasons, you should never exceed 12,000 psi in any medium & large frame antique.

It is important to note that nowhere does the Lyman manual give any loads for a 265gr cast bullet (neither in 45ACP or 45AR)... so you may want to tread carefully with this kind of a heavy slug, as it is approx 30%+ heavier than what is listed (and may be dangerous in conjunction with the kind of loads you're referring to). A 265gr bullet should be probably propelled by 4.5 of Unique MAX, unless you have some solid & reliable data to prove otherwise (note: the fact that your gun hasn't blown up yet doesn't count! Think micro-fissures...).

You said it pretty well, i think. Quiclkload estimates that 5.0 gr Unique / 265 gr bullet in a 45acp case will be in the 12k psi range - but this does not take into account the very tight throats some webleys are "blessed" with, which will increase pressure dramatically.

 

[apu]

I load my MKII brass with the 265 grain bullet and 1.26 OAL up to 5.2 grain Unique this gets me an actual 610-620ft/sec measured at 10 feet from the chrony. This is within original design spec for MKII-MKVI ammunition which was 580 ft/sec(MKII) +/- 30 ft/sec or 620ft/sec (MK VI) +/- 20 ft/sec measured at 30 feet. These rounds were orginally loaded with 7.5 grain of cordite or 5.2 grain of nitrocellulose.

Unless you reduce your OAL signifigantly more than 1.26 inches with the big bullet or have a firearm in suspicious condition you are not going to blow up or otherwise harm your MK Webley at 5 grain or 5.2 grain of Unique.

 

[jethunter]

I load my MKII brass with the 265 grain bullet and 1.26 OAL up to 5.2 grain Unique this gets me an actual 610-620ft/sec measured at 10 feet from the chrony. This is within original design spec for MKII-MKVI ammunition which was 580 ft/sec(MKII) +/- 30 ft/sec or 620ft/sec (MK VI) +/- 20 ft/sec measured at 30 feet. These rounds were orginally loaded with 7.5 grain of cordite or 5.2 grain of nitrocellulose.

Unless you reduce your OAL signifigantly more than 1.26 inches with the big bullet or have a firearm in suspicious condition you are not going to blow up or otherwise harm your MK Webley at 5 grain or 5.2 grain of Unique.

There are a lot of variables. Any load data advice i give here is going to err on the light side. People need to use their own common sense and have at least a moderate understanding of reloading and pressure before they start loading for antiques - the safety margins can be smaller than they are in more modern arms.
I don't load 265 gr bullets in the .455 webley any more. I don't especially like them because they are a pia to buy or cast, and lighter bullets produce lower pressure. Strangely (or maybe not so strange when you think about it) lighter bullets tend to shoot to point of aim much better than the heavier bullets in a lot of these old pistols, and especially in the webleys. To each their own.

 

[apu]

There are a lot of variables. Any load data advice i give here is going to err on the light side. People need to use their own common sense and have at least a moderate understanding of reloading and pressure before they start loading for antiques - the safety margins can be smaller than they are in more modern arms.

Jet I don't disagree, I just wanted to point out my experience at 762's request for "solid and reliable data". I consider Dowell's orginal factory load data credible(albeit tough to source martial cordite or nitrocellulose) and my data is at best anecdotal, but I wanted to point out at least a nominal attempt at objective measurement instead of the usual statements such as " 2.5 grain of powderpuff powder makes it shoot real good" or" she is going to blow like an IED if you load a grain more". I would encourage anyone that reloads to pick up a cheap $100 chrony and verify their loads independently. One should be reponsible for their own safety and not rely on internet speculation.

Not unlike yourself, I don't bother with 265 bullets much these days. Like you noted they are PIA to make and I don't particularly find them all that accurate. I prefer a 255 grain flat nosed, flat based cowboy style bullet, usually size them to .454 and then giver at the range.

 

[jethunter]

Jet I don't disagree, I just wanted to point out my experience at 762's request for "solid and reliable data". I consider Dowell's orginal factory load data credible(albeit tough to source martial cordite or nitrocellulose) and my data is at best anecdotal, but I wanted to point out at least a nominal attempt at objective measurement instead of the usual statements such as " 2.5 grain of powderpuff powder makes it shoot real good" or" she is going to blow like an IED if you load a grain more". I would encourage anyone that reloads to pick up a cheap $100 chrony and verify their loads independently. One should be reponsible for their own safety and not rely on internet speculation.

Not unlike yourself, I don't bother with 265 bullets much these days. Like you noted they are PIA to make and I don't particularly find them all that accurate. I prefer a 255 grain flat nosed, flat based cowboy style bullet, usually size them to .454 and then giver at the range.

Apu, I've read enough of your posts before to know that you are a knowledgeable and responsible guy. Sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing your post, I wasn't - just trying to add my own bit onto it.

The chrony will answer some questions but not all of them. The bad news is that Quickload (which is only an approximation at best) estimates that the .265gr .455" bullet will pressure spike 30% higher in .452" throats over the .455" throats, without a corresponding increase in velocity. The good news is that most of the old webleys will take a lot of abuse but it depends on how hot the load was to begin with.

 

[apu]

The chrony will answer some questions but not all of them. The bad news is that Quickload (which is only an approximation at best) estimates that the .265gr .455" bullet will pressure spike 30% higher in .452" throats over the .455" throats, without a corresponding increase in velocity.

Good point.

Don't worry Jet I don't mind be corrected or suitable re-educated every now and then.