30-30 Users, chime in Please

H4831 said:
Something isn't quite right. A ten year old Marlin 30-30 will have the little bullseye in the butt stock. The reason I asked was because when Remington bught Marlin, or shortly after, they did away with teh bullseye. That is, a Marlin without the bullseye is Remington made and there has been a lot of controvesy over poorer quality showing up in some of these newer Marlins.
Also old, like thirty-forty years, loaded ammo may split the necks on firing. But I have never heard of the shoulders splitting and 7 years is not old enough for the brass to get brittle, in my opinion.
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Sorry for the hijack, but I bought a Marlin 1894 in .357 about 6 months ago, and it has the bullseye on the stock. I see the Remington take-over occurred in 2007 (by quick Google search). Is Remarlin starting to put them on stocks again, or is it possible I might have an 'old stock' gun, although the way the .357s seem to sell like hotcakes, I would somewhat doubt it...?

EDIT: Serial is 9205###X.
 
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He is taking the gun to Wortners in Chatham, I think they are a authorized Service Centre for Winchester.

I just want to make sure he is safe, and I would have been remiss in not telling him, and not asking around about it.

If if costs a few dollars, and the gun in fine, no harm done, but if there is a problem, maybe I saved him from some kind of injury, or his son, who is going to be hunting with us this year as well, and he might be using this firearm.

I can sleep now that I have let him know about a possible situation, hopefully it is nothing, but, better safe than sorry.
 
7.62mm said:
He is taking the gun to Wortners in Chatham, I think they are a authorized Service Centre for Winchester.

I just want to make sure he is safe, and I would have been remiss in not telling him, and not asking around about it.

If if costs a few dollars, and the gun in fine, no harm done, but if there is a problem, maybe I saved him from some kind of injury, or his son, who is going to be hunting with us this year as well, and he might be using this firearm.

I can sleep now that I have let him know about a possible situation, hopefully it is nothing, but, better safe than sorry.
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Good choice. I think the brass was weakened either due to buying what he thought was a factory box from someone else that may have been reloads, or from being exposed to moisture while sitting. The only other time I've seen this was on once fired Federal cheap cartridges. The brass was very weak and a few had shown smaller tears before throwing it in the tumbler. When I threw it in the tumbler as a full load a few more came out with tears similar to the image presumably from just hitting into each other.
 
H4831 said:
Something isn't quite right. A ten year old Marlin 30-30 will have the little bullseye in the butt stock. The reason I asked was because when Remington bught Marlin, or shortly after, they did away with teh bullseye. That is, a Marlin without the bullseye is Remington made and there has been a lot of controvesy over poorer quality showing up in some of these newer Marlins.
Also old, like thirty-forty years, loaded ammo may split the necks on firing. But I have never heard of the shoulders splitting and 7 years is not old enough for the brass to get brittle, in my opinion.
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Could be a 30AS, they don't have the bullseye.
 
The plot is thickening. I didn't know a 30AS (What is a 30AS?) didn't have a bullseye.
About the primers is interesting. But if it is just headspace, why aren't all the cases first blown forward, with the primers extruding, showing head space?
We have all reloaded cases until they wear out. The common cause of wearing out is vertical cracks in the necks. No matter how many times reloaded, I have never heard of the shoulders splitting.
 
H4831 said:
The plot is thickening. I didn't know a 30AS (What is a 30AS?) didn't have a bullseye.
About the primers is interesting. But if it is just headspace, why aren't all the cases first blown forward, with the primers extruding, showing head space?
We have all reloaded cases until they wear out. The common cause of wearing out is vertical cracks in the necks. No matter how many times reloaded, I have never heard of the shoulders splitting.
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Another version of the 336 - economy version based on cosmetics...

blake
 
H4831 said:
The plot is thickening. I didn't know a 30AS (What is a 30AS?) didn't have a bullseye.
About the primers is interesting. But if it is just headspace, why aren't all the cases first blown forward, with the primers extruding, showing head space?
We have all reloaded cases until they wear out. The common cause of wearing out is vertical cracks in the necks. No matter how many times reloaded, I have never heard of the shoulders splitting.
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I've seen the shoulders split on some old .222 Remington C.I.L. Imperial factory rounds. So old, you couldn't read the writing on the box. Also had some .303 1941 Australian ammo, which I quit shooting because the shoulders split on every shot. Also seen lots of ancient D.C. Co. factory loads where the neck split in storage, and you could remove the bullets with your fingers.

I've also had brand new Remington brass split on the first firing, in both .32-20 and .44-40 calibres. I no longer buy any Remington crap! :mad:
 
7.62mm said:
It is interesting, as all the brass with the splits, the primers are flush, or below the primer hole, all the good looking brass, sans splits, have proud primers!
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That makes perfect sense.
The primers are proud: The case did not expand to fill the chamber, hence no brass stretch.
The primers are flat: The case was seated against the bolt face, and the brass was blown forward to split at the neck because it's too hard.

Again this makes me wonder at the loads in those cases, and what condition they are in.
 
From the look of the cases, in the photos, the chamber doesn't look to be over sized.

I've had problems with lever action rifles before, with this same problem. Never, in a Marlin 336 though, only in Model 94s.

The model 94 lock up system can sometimes be a little sloppy. This can and will create a bit of backward movement of the bolt during firing. It usually isn't a problem but it does occasionally cause a bit of gas blow by and split shoulders. It stands to reason, when tolerances get to sloppy, something has to give. In the case of the Mod 94 rifles I'm talking about, the bolt retaining bars were very sloppy in the relief cuts on the bolt. It's easy to check, take a piece of plastic or wooden dowel and insert it in the barrel. Press against the bolt face and visually check for movement. If you clamp it in a vice, you can probably measure the movement with a dial indicator.

Also had a similar problem with a DP marked No1 MkIII*. Rifle looked freshly FTRed but would split shoulders and pop out primers. Cases were always very carbon coated as well. Found out the bolt lug recesses were very worn. Looked like they had been used in sand.

The Model 94s, just had oversize recesses in the bolts. The Marlin, locks up differently but I suspect there is something allowing the bolt to move back, upon ignition. That would explain why some cases have protruding primers/no splits and some have flush primers/splits. Inconsistent lug contact.
 
jdman said:
Yeah if he has anymore of the ammo, get him to break down a couple and weigh the charge, and compare with loading data.
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It is factory ammo! Bought at Canadian Tire!

I was planning on grabbing a few from him when I see him in a few weeks for deer season. Hopefully it will be resolved though, as he is taking it to a Gunsmith to have it looked at.
 
Even factory ammo can have it's issues. I got 3 boxes of 300 WM Win grey box at Walmart last fall, went straight to range, and proceeded to shoot groups of 3" with it. !?!?! Last ammo through it was Federal 150's, shot 1" groups all day. Had fired off 1 box of the Win, took the other 2 home, pulled the bullets and weighed the charges. Low was 68.3, high was 75.4, a fair bit of variation, the bullets even looked different, with 3 distinctive styles. All the same lot number too. What quality control? When firing that first box, I could hear and feel the difference between some of the shots, so could the other 4 guys on the range.
 
Another thing, just came to mind. Another reason for primers to back out and shoulder splits, is low pressure, from to slow powders. The firing pin, will push the case ahead and cause an inconsistent ignition. It will cause the primer to be pushed back and brass not to fire form properly. Not usually a problem with factory ammunition. How cold was it when the cartridges were fired?
 
Couldn't 10 years of jostling - back and forth out of the woods, bumpy roads, etc - break down the powder, thus causing a hotter load?

(Yeah, I know - necropost)
 
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I have seen hunters cartridges that have been loaded in and out of their 30-30's so many times that the lead tips are worn off and the cases are scratched to hell fro the loading gate, Does your buddie seem the type that only fires at game and would use the same cartridges over and over for years? and a oily chamber can reek havoc on presures and case to chamber seal. let us know what the smith says.
 
bobc said:
I have seen hunters cartridges that have been loaded in and out of their 30-30's so many times that the lead tips are worn off and the cases are scratched to hell fro the loading gate, Does your buddie seem the type that only fires at game and would use the same cartridges over and over for years? and a oily chamber can reek havoc on presures and case to chamber seal. let us know what the smith says.
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Short, quick hi-jack. Why is Nova Scotia the "cold Mexico"? Curious.
 
winchester has been having a crappy run of brass in the last year or so , i know i shot a box of 308 winchester bought from chinese wheel and over half of them split at the neck
 
savagefan said:
Any updates 7.62?
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Wow...thread resurrection!

No real updates.....he took it to a gunsmith before the season, said it was fine. I think this has to chalked up to some bad brass. Everyone is still alive, he fired the gun during Deer Season, no one is missing fingers or any other body parts. Hopefully it was just an isolated incident, and it is no longer a worry.....although, if it were my gun, I would be investigating a little further!
 
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