1886 Winchester 45-90 value

Easyrider said:
I am wondering if I could do some sort of tender, or online auction on this forum. ?
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the EE rules as I understand them, are that you have to set a price on what you are selling. You have two strategies; overprice it and accept a lower offer or set what appears to be a fair price and with luck sell it relatively quickly.
My own impression is that true collector who pay the big dollars are also very very picky and fussy about what they will pay that money for. Also if you look in the EE and see that a item has been bumped back up several times, you might assume that it is either something that few people want or is overpriced or both

cheers mooncoon
 
I figured that the site managers would cringe a bit at the auction/tender thing, mooncoon, and I hear ya about the overpricing thing. My problem is that I haven't bought or sold a gun for 25 years, and fair value is a bit of a mystery to me. I am not looking to gouge anyone, but neither do I want to accept the first low-ball thrown at me, and find later that some dealer flipped it the next day and pocketed a few hundred dollars. Realistically, my objective from the beginning has been to cash it in and use the proceeds to buy a new gopher gun. A Savage 93R17 BSEV with a nice scope runs about $900; would be nice to not have to chip in too much of my $$$. That may be overly optimistic, don't know. Like I said, I'm looking for a deal that works for everybody. If someone had the right trade...
I'm working on an EE ad. OBTW, your comments are greatly appreciated, everyone. Thank you.
 
I woud not say this is a parts gun. This if from standard catalog of firearms 2009. It's a bit of a read, but here goes.


Model 1886
Based on a John Browning patent, the Model 1886 was one of the finest and strongest lever-actions ever utilized in a Winchester rifle. Winchester introduced the Model 1886 in order to take advantage of the more powerful centerfire cartridges of the time.

Model 1886 rifles and carbines were furnished with walnut stocks, case hardened frames, and blued barrels and magazine tubes. In 1901 Winchester discontinued the use of case hardened frames on all its rifles and used blued frames instead. For this reason, case hardened Model 1886 rifles will bring a premium. Winchester provided a large selection of extra cost options on the Model 1886, and for rifles with these options, a separate valuation should be made by a reliable source. The Model 1886 was produced from 1886 to 1935 with about 160,000 in production.

The rifle was available in 10 different chambers: .45-70 U.S. Government, .50-110 Express, .45-90 W.C.F., .40-70 W.C. F., .40-82 W.C.F., .38-70 W.C. F., .40-65 W.C.F., .50-100-450, .38-56 W.C.F., .33 W.C. F.

The most popular caliber was the .45-70 Government. Prices of the Model 1886 are influenced by caliber, with the larger calibers bringing a premium. The 1886 was available in several different configurations.

1. Sporting Rifle, 26", round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, full or half magazine and straight-grip stock with plain forearm.

2. Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26", round or octagon barrel, full or half magazine and fancy checkered walnut pistol-grip stock with checkered forearm.

3. Takedown Rifle, 24" round barrel, full or half magazine with straight-grip stock fitted with shotgun rubber buttplate and plain forearm.

4. Extra Lightweight Takedown Rifle, 22" round barrel, full or half magazine with straight-grip stock fitted with shotgun rubber buttplate and plain forearm.

5. Extra Lightweight Rifle, 22" round barrel, full or half magazine with straight-grip stock fitted with a shotgun rubber butt-plate and plain forearm.

6. Carbine, 22" round barrel, full or half magazine, with straight-grip stock and plain forearm.

7. Musket, 30" round barrel, musket-style forearm with one barrel band. Military-style sights. About 350 Model 1886 Muskets were produced.


Yours is clearly a number 1, sporting rifle. notice that it may have only had a half mag to begin with. Given what you've said about the condition of the bore, etc, it would probably be considered FAIR

GOOD
Small repairs, alterations, or non-factory additions are sometimes encountered in this class. Factory replacement parts are permitted. The overall working condition of the firearm must be good as well as safe. The bore may exhibit wear or some corrosion, especially in antique arms. Antique firearms may be included in this category if their metal and wood finish is at least 50 percent original factory finish.

FAIR:
Doesn't have to be working condition, but if it is it must be safe to shoot (modern firearms MUST function, antiques do not have to). There must be at least a tiny bit of original finish or blue or old (antique?) refinish remaining. Non original parts and repairs, alterations, nonfactory additions, and recent refinishing would all place a firearm in this classification.

POOR
For antique firearms, this means rut and pitting, no finish left, and in non working condition with broken or missing parts.

NOW the FUN part:

Exc. V.G. Good Fair Poor
15000 10000 7500 5000 2500


Looks like you might be getting a pair of sakos instead of a savage :) Good luck.
 
Wow, nice bit of research, mwjones! Good job! I'm sceptical about the $5000 part :eek:, but you have done a perfect job of making my argument for me, about how tough price discovery can be. There are endless variables, including the US/Canada issue mentioned above, just for starters. I would be doing myself a disservice to accept an offer without some due diligence. Like you say...two fancy guns instead of a plainer one. Or a plain one and a nice down payment on a new Road King...:D
Before the flaming starts, I have no intention of asking 5 grand for it. $500 suddenly looks a bit cheap, tho...
I will eventually have to pick a number, and live with it. I am the seller, and it is my job to decide what I would be happy with. I'm just not there yet.
 
It is obviously a cut down mag as has already been stated. If it were a special order short mag. the mag. cap would be rounded on the end and I'm assuming it has a small hole in the bottom of the barrel near the muzzle for the magazine cap screw to fit into. BTW there is an original 86 pistol grip stock for sale on Gunbroker right now. It is definitely restorable to me and I think $500 is low as well. You could get $200 for the lever and lower tang alone from the right guy.
 
Dig a hole in front of your driveway and wait for the turnip truck to drive by. You might get a live one to fall out of the back with 5 grand burning a hole in his pocket for your gun:p
 
I don't really think you'd get 5 grand either, though calibres other than 45-70 are supposedly worth more... i think the cut off mag tube counts as an acceptable altertion but would bring it down a bit, but certainly not down to 10% value. Tht aside, it's a solid fair condition gun, bonus that it actually shoots. You could totally refinish it and it would still be in the fair category!!
 
Okay, I have a plan. I'm going to advertise the rifle for $750. I have gotten some advice from some of you (thanks) and done some research on my own, and I think that is a fair starting price. It is significantly less than what it would be worth in real good condition, and it is also significantly less than what it would cost to buy a repro 1886. Of course, some of you will not bother with a rifle in fair condition, and some of you prefer the repro, and I respect that, but I am sure there are others (like me) who just prefer the idea of shooting an original, but don't want to fork out the cash for a real nice piece. I really believe that this rifle is a very good project, for someone who wants to tackle it. The action is good, and works nicely, and it is a pistol grip, which makes it so much more comfortable to shoot...YMMV. The bore is pitted and rusty, but it shoots, and like someone pointed out, it's not hard to sleeve. The cut-off mag is not a giant problem, and I will include with the deal another mag tube, which I bought years ago, but wasn't an original one, so I didn't install it. One screw missing on forend cap...
Watch for my post on EE coming soon.:)
As always, feedback is appreciated.
 
Keep us informed please. I'm curious on who much it finally sells for, if you don't mind revealing the info. Hey shotgunjoe, did you get some rolling papers yet:p :nest:
 
News flash! The rifle is sold, for $750. The guy who bought it had been in contact with me from the beginning, in fact he was the first to make an offer. I informed him of the price I had finally decided on, and after a flurry of email pics, he accepted. I asked if he minded me sharing this information, and he said hell no, he was proud to have it. He made it an easy transaction, and I am kinda excited for him and his new toy. Of course, if he is not happy when he gets the rifle, I will refund.
I expect him to post photos of his bruises the first time he fires it prone :evil:

I hafta say that I am sooo impressed with this forum. Over 900 hits in 5 days! In addition, it is obvious that there are some real knowledgable folks here. What an excellent scource of information! And made in Canada...
 
OBTW, I heard about this site from Travis at Jo Brooke Firearms in Brandon, MB. Thanks for the info, Travis. Because of that, I will likely take my fist full of dollars there to buy my new toy. I think it's important for us to support the businesses that support us.
 
WHOA there cowboy! NO WAY $750!!!! Before you do that check out the Ellwood Epps used lever gun section. You get an indication of the range in prices based on condition. I've found them very accurate on their condition ratings. As a minumum I'd start that gun at $1500 if you really HAVE to sell it - if it doesn't sell - you can always adjust the price - because YOU STILL HAVE THE GUN! Check out the Winchester '94's (not the 1894's) here on GN some are listed close to $750. "Original condition" is WAY over rated. Check out Doug Turnbull's work - they aren't "original" anymore but sure command the $$$$.
 
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I am satisfied with the deal I made. I did some homework, and although opinions vary, in the end, fair market value is what buyer and seller agree on. I did not find any real world evidence of the big money values quoted in this thread. In any case, the guy who bought it is going to do a restoration, and I was willing to take a bit less from a guy who was going to give it a good home. It turns out that a person can make himself a bit crazy if it becomes all about the money. I wanted a new gopher gun, decided to sell the 45-90 to finance the project. Mission accomplished. I got my name on a Savage .17 as soon as the shipment comes in to Jo Brook. I'm happy, and the buyer is happy, life is good!
OBTW, stay tuned to this thread, the guy intends to keep us informed about his restoration project.
 
Easyrider said:
I am satisfied with the deal I made. I did some homework, and although opinions vary, in the end, fair market value is what buyer and seller agree on. I did not find any real world evidence of the big money values quoted in this thread. In any case, the guy who bought it is going to do a restoration, and I was willing to take a bit less from a guy who was going to give it a good home. It turns out that a person can make himself a bit crazy if it becomes all about the money. I wanted a new gopher gun, decided to sell the 45-90 to finance the project. Mission accomplished. I got my name on a Savage .17 as soon as the shipment comes in to Jo Brook. I'm happy, and the buyer is happy, life is good!
OBTW, stay tuned to this thread, the guy intends to keep us informed about his restoration project.
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Hey Easyrider, well said, best statements made on this thread or this site.
"I'm happy and the buyer is happy, life is good!"
"It turns out that a person can make himself a bit crazy if it becomes all about the money" some sellers are so worried that a buyer will turn it over and make a profit. Make your profit and be happy.
 
Rifle showed up today and looks better than expected. Went over it with my gunsmith and barrel looks salvageable. We will clean crown lap headspace and slug and then will probably order a custom cast mold to get the old girl shooting the way she was intended to. Can't wait, stay tuned.
 
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