My Match Fee Formula

colt45gunner

colt45gunner

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Here's a match fee formula I slapped together just in about an hour, plus a little longer to type this all up...

IPSC MATCH FEE FORMULA

Level 1’s:
$ 0.15/ round count - 60 rnds. = $ 9.00
Plus $ 1.00/ stage - 4 stages = $ 4.00
........................Total match fee: = $ 13.00

- Up to match director to round down or up to $10.00 or $15.00, on his/her discretion in respect to work involved to set up. Eg. Hardly any props, just simple set up or little extra effort with walls, swinger.
- I believe these level 1’s should be capped at $15.00 max.. they are just for practice and keeping competitive edge..but do not count for anything in your provincial standings

LEVEL 2’S:

cost of: $ 0.20/ round count...... 80 rnds. = $ 16.00....... if 110 rnds. = $ 22.00
Additional $ 1.00/ stage.......... 5 stages = $ 5.00 ......... 6 stages = $ 6.00
Plus $ 5.00 level 2 premium ........................ $ 5.00 ....... .... same = $ 5.00
.................................... Total match fee: $ 26.00 .. Total match fee: $ 33.00

- Fee to be rounded down or up to the closest denomination of $5
- So example 1, to be $25 instead of $26. If club wants to round up to $30, due to some extra cost incurred, or whatever, that’s to their discretion.

LEVEL 3’S:

Plus $1/ Shrt. Stg. - plus $2/ Med. Stg. - plus $ 3/ Lrg. Stage - (Courses of Fire)

Cost of $ 0.30/ round count - 200 rnds. = $ 60.00 .................... if 300 rnds. = $ 90.00
If 10 stages ...................................................... if 15 stages
(3 shrt. 4 med. 3 lrg.) ...................... + $ 20.00 ..... (5 shrt., 5 med. & 5 lrg.) + $ 30.00
Plus a level 3 premium of :................. + $10.00 ...................................... + $ 10.00
.............................Match total fee: = $ 90.00 ............. Match total fee: = $ 130.00

- Fee to be rounded up to the closest denomination of $5
- Clubs discretion to add another $5.00 - $10.00, if due to some extra cost incurred, or whatever warranted good reason (extra materials for a really cool stage :)).
- If Provincials, add premium of another $ 5.00
- If Nationals, add premium of another $10.00
- Also some further possible fees For level 2’s & 3’s:

- If a lunch is included, may add $ 5.00 & if level 3, $10.00 to cover b.b.q.dinner, etc.. and can be a per shooting day charge, so if shooting on two days and lunch is served, than same charge times 2 to be included in match fee/ with ticket given at match registration and part of the Reg. form, so people can opt out of it if they want to deal with their own lunch or dinner and not have to pay for it in the match fee.
If no ticket no food, you change your mind, if and only if enough, pay on the spot…
- Also may add another $ 5.00 for paying workers to patch, so shooters can focus on the match or pick their noses (whatever they want).

- Most importantly, extra $ 1.00 for every “Mike” ….:):p

- NOTE: I do not personally know what’s involved in setting up level 3’s, and the cost and references to this or that... and I'm open to hearing feedback from club reps...
Also, I know my above formula is suggesting that some of our level 3’s are too high, and that the nationals are very high. But I do hear ( I repeat, I do hear) many other shooters complaining of high costs and not only my opinion and that they will not attend that or this match due to such.
I don’t make s**t up and am Freak’n Honest.

- Of course this is my personal opinion on some fair way to calculate match fees and clubs to try to keep match fees reasonable.

- Though some people cannot believe that many shooters do care about keeping fees fair so most can afford to participate more frequently than not, it is a reality. If I’m wrong in this, I’m open to hear from my fellow IPSC lovers and will respect everyone’s opinion.

- I also look forward to feedback on this formula for calculating match fees. Of course I don’t expect clubs to follow it just because I’m suggesting, and nor do I expect IPSC Ontario or IPSC Canada, to implement it. I do hope they consider the generality of the above match fee formula and/or possibly tweek it and run it by club reps…. Don’t know if it would only cause more problems and complaints from clubs, etc…Or print it out and put thru shredder…
If this formula is truly on the low side and will absolutely not cover the cost and leave the clubs with at least a small profit for their clubs, then by all means, I would tweek it for such… that’s up to match directors and clubs who do this regularly to calculate and give their input.
I do believe we should not be entering the $200's for any level 3.

I also understand that such formula may have no place what so ever in our sport due to various variables involved in setting up matches, etc...

Again, It’s just my thoughts on the matter.

Stavros
Colt 45 Gunner

Ps. I do hope stage designs are always interesting and challenging and fun to shoot !
 
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i think 35 right on for the low side of it, maby 40 if its a high round count, what i didnt see you add in tho is trophys or some kind of give away prizes, i know some of the matches can go all out in the level 3's.

but i think on an idea but i dont think that ipsc should be capping anything. i do belive that it will show in attendance if you asking to much and giving to little.
 
i believe i mentioned club discretion to add $ for any other specific cost... Which really leaves it open for any amount.. U hope club reps will b fair, as i did raise the unit cost per round count for each higher level, which helps cover some of the extra expenses of a level 3. and some prizes r free give aways from sponsors...
I'm going yo bed now n dresm of shooting all A's which i cant do in real life .. :)
 
Sorry a formula to determine match fees based on round count is ridiculous. Some clubs go all out even for level 1s some level 3s suck. Each Province is fully capable of setting of setting policies and procedures on match fees. As well if shooters feel matches are out of line for fees they can opt to not go. Eventually clubs will get the hint and reduce their fees.
 
sorry but, what MD experience are you getting your numbers from?
score sheets, feeding staff/setup crew, targets, patches, range fees, all need to figured in.
Back when Filthy and I were doing the SinCity matches we would still clear a profit on a $10 or $15 match fee( memory a little fuzzy). That was with staff and juniors shooting for fee, chinese food for setup crew, stage/match specific carbon copy score sheets(cheaper then you would think), misson fees to IPSCONT and buying some new building material. On the other hand we didn't have to pay a per shooter fee to the club or a rental fee.
In michigan the monthly club matches are $20-25 and have 5-8 stages with a classifier, so right off the bat $4/head goes to USPSA, and another $1 goes the MI section.

At the end of the day its all very simple, the shooters are paying for a service provided by the match director. If you make the match worth what the shooters are paying, they will be happy and keep coming back. You give them a great match at lower price they will be happier, you put on low quality match at a high price, people will stop going.
 
as for the comment of nations being to high, smoke another one. USPSA nats is $500 and it sells out every year with a waiting list.

You want a $150 nationals??
Nationals, has more staff that needs to be taken care of(food,hotel) for a longer time. The hall and meal at the awards ceramony isn't free either. You need to ask yourself what do you want? to shoot half a day then spend the other half and a full day on the range working. or do you want fulltime range staff so you don't have to be on the range all the time. Full time staff gives you a better match, no variations on calls frm day to day, yes that does happen I have witnessed it my self on several occasions. As a shooter you are better rested to compete and there is no BS with one provinces team having it easier because they were not working before shooting the tough stages while the other teams worked after.
To those in Ontario #####ing about the Nats match fee, you don't have to pay for flights or gas and hotels if you drive, so this is as cheap of a Nationals as you're going to see
 
colt45gunner said:
I do believe we should not be entering the $200's for any level 3.
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Based on what? you expect the staff to spend a week on the range and pay for their rooms and meals theirselves? I'm sure we'll have a long line of people waiting to sign up for that.

If you are basing tha opinion on fees from USPSA majors, thats apples to oranges. Hotel rates, match supplies are cheaper and they have a much large sponsor bases to get help from.

We're back at "make the match worth the fee". A match with dedicated full time staff is a better match. How do you get people to volunteer for all that work? Spoil them, free pre-shoot, free hotel, free meals, a quality thank you gift, staff only prize table. Its a proven formula, but someone needs to cover the cost of that, so you get a higher match fee and a higher quality match in return.
 
Well, this is his formula.
What I would like to hear is how MDs see that? How they calculate their costs of the match.
Since I was involve in helping few times I know that IPSC matches are good for club budget and in most of the cases clubs making profit.
 
I don't think an 80 round lvl 2 should ever be higher than $15...the going rate of some of the IPSC matches in this area is exactly why I don't shoot a lot of IPSC

As a comparison, IDPA clubs in SW Ontario charge $20 for a 125-150 round count match, and that includes a lunch.
 
One thing you did not take into account. The law of supply and demand. If the matches are filling, and since we are constantly hearing about how hard it is to get signed up before a match fills up they obviously are, you won't see match fees drop. On surprised they haven't gone higher to be honest.
I agree that match fees in some cases are high for what we get but basing a match fee strictly on round count? That's got fail written all over it. If that happened we'd see some of the worst stage designs ever. Every stage would be 32 rounds with barely any movement (how else do you fit a bunch of 32 round courses into a range, it's bad enough now at some places) and matches will run waaaay behind. Waterloo tried this acouple of years ago and had 6 field courses as a match and it ran over 2 hours behind schedule. You might be able to afford the match but do you haverhe time to spend the whole day on the range?
As it is we see some pretty bad stage designs because MDs are worried about round count over quality stages. You can only run to so many windows and shoot the same bank of four target stapled together before it gets really boring. We shoot such a static sport here. Hardly any shooting on the move or big spread in targets that requires you to make big swings or move to engage. We might as well just set some boxes on the ground and run from place to place.
 
colt45gunner said:
- NOTE: I do not personally know what’s involved in setting up level 3’s,
Click to expand...

Steve...you personally don't know what's involved in setting up any matches...(or working them for that matter) :rolleyes:

So...I guess a 2,000 sq ft house in Ottawa is worth the same as a 2,000 sq ft house in Toronto?

Anyway...don't beat on him too bad. The hour he spent dreaming this up is more time than he's volunteered to IPSC in the last 10 years. Keep up the effort Steve ;)
 
Match fees are not what should be either makin' or breakin' it when it comes to deciding whether or not you're gonna shoot... If they are then maybe you shouldn't be playing.

Take any game... Golf, bowling, beer league hockey... They all come with fees. Fees that pale in comparison to what participants spend on gear and other costs directly attributed to their recreational persuit.

As someone has already mentioned there are matches that cost hundred$ to get into and they sell out. The people willing to spend it do. Nowhere is it written that everyone is entitled to everything.

You gots to pay to play
 
This is good. we have some good points here.

One is that matches are cheaper to set up than some would think...(the smaller matches)...
and another point, large matches like the the Nationals has to cover hotel & food for the workers, excellent point too.
This is why I mentioned if costs needs to be higher to cover the cost, so be it in each circumstance... I agree the fee needs to be what it needs to be...
my formula is only a general suggestion to follow...
I'm also don't want clubs racking up rnd cnt. to collect more money and if they did, shooters would complain and that would work itself out as well.

In previous threads I've read some say that level 3s, why are they not just double price of typical level 2 ? well of course they need to be more than double, due to the extra costs involved and the Nationals, as Madness pointed out has a lot more costs...
How about the local level 3's that don't have helpers from far away come to help.. and the locals help put on the match with shooters helping patch to keep smooth running match.
I'm throwing this out more for generating conversation on the topic not cause i REALLY REALLY want my formula to be loved and accepted by everyone.
Are any clubs willing to annouce what the profit/loss final # was after their level 3's with what the # of shooters, shooter fee was and if little or lots of paid gifts were given, etc.. ? just so we do have an idea ?
 
colt45gunner said:
NOTE: I do not personally know what’s involved in setting up level 3’s, - Of course this is my personal opinion on some fair way to calculate match fees and clubs to try to keep match fees reasonable.
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Very true just based on the fact you think that a formula would work!



colt45gunner said:
- Though some people cannot believe that many shooters do care about keeping fees fair so most can afford to participate more frequently than not, it is a reality. If I’m wrong in this, I’m open to hear from my fellow IPSC lovers and will respect everyone’s opinion.

-
I also look forward to feedback on this formula for calculating match fees. If this formula is truly on the low side and will absolutely not cover the cost and leave the clubs with at least a small profit for their clubs, then by all means, I would tweek it for such… that’s up to match directors and clubs who do this regularly to calculate and give their input.

I also understand that such formula may have no place what so ever in our sport due to various variables involved in setting up matches, etc...

Again, It’s just my thoughts on the matter.

Stavros
Colt 45 Gunner
Click to expand...

It is clear you don't understand the costs of putting on a big match. I will just throw out some numbers at you based on real world experience since you wanted input.

Lumber/prop materials $3000+ for a lvl III which will most likely get shot to crap and have to be replaced by the end of the in a year.

Steel (based on 15 poppers) $3500+, which will last a bit longer (hopefully) but doesn't include swingers or the like.

Hotels rooms for CRO/Staff (split with IPSC Ontario) $3600/2=$1800.

Match fees to IPSC for a lvl 3 is $7 per shooter, so 200 shooters=$1400.

So that is $9700 on just these 4 expenses. Don't forget patches you need about 50000 of them for a lvl 3. Oh yeah and food and water for ROs/staff about $10 per RO per day which aren't even added into that number.

These are just a few of the expenses that come to mind right off the top of my head, trust me there are so many more.

Do the math, their isn't much money being made putting on these matches. Clubs sure as heck won't be doing it to lose money. It isn't the clubs or IPSCs responsibility to subsidize matches to make them affordable for everyone to shoot. It isn't a welfare state where everyone else pays for you. There is also no price put on the sweat equity that people donate with all the work they do to put on matches of this size during that year organizing it and the week of the match actually running it Do you realize it takes about 9 months to a year to get these matches done?

In short if you don't think the price is worth it then don't shoot it. But don't knock the people that put on the matches and work their butts off for the shooters who do when you don't have a freaking clue as to what it takes to put on a big match by #####ing about it with your opinions that lack any knowledge or experience on the subject, because opinions like that are like butt holes, everyone has one but they aren't necessarily any good to anyone else.
 
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