A tip for all RFB owners with reliability issues

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LloydM

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Would anyone who owns an RFB be willing to meet me in Calgary next week to fire off some rounds? My RFB is having some issues, and I would like to see if swapping bolts or recoil assemblies resolves my issues.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Ok, this is embarassing, but I am going to admit it anyway... the title of this thread was originally "Need help from Calgary area RFB owners" - but I have changed it to "A tip for all RFB owners with reliability issues"... From day one I had major problems...

The first shot was always fine, but most times on subsequent shots the bolt would strip a cartridge out of the magazine and not chamber it completely. Depending on how far the bolt would make it forward I might need to either push the charging handle the rest of the way forward or pull the charging handle back part way and release, letting it slam the cartridge fully forward into the chamber. Sometimes it would take two ‘rammings’ with the charging handle. Although less frequent, the bolt would sometimes fail to chamber a second round at all. Through its entire range the gas setting seemed to have no affect on reliability and all shots ejected properly.

I had tried several types of commercial ammo and reloads with various seating depths and powder charges, and I had used 10 different 5/20rnd magazines from 4 different manufacturers and two 5/20rnd magazines both of different brands.

The tip I am going to give everyone has been mentioned several times before, but I ignored it until today.
Oil the crap out of the inside of the mag body and the sides of the follower!.

I had ignored this tip because the followers already seemed to slide perfectly inside the mag bodies, and of all the rifles and pistols I have ever shot in my life I have never had to lubricate a magazine -M14, AR, Glock, Beretta, Sig, Walther, CZ, HK, Lee Enfield mags... not one of them ever needed to be lubricated. And what were the chances of all twelve of my FAL mags needing lubrication in order to work at all?

Well the moment I lubed up my mags all my problems went away and the rifle worked 100% flawlessly with the Federal Power-Shok and two types of reloads I tried.


Appologies to Steve at Vault Distribution for the needles phone calls, but thanks to Steve for reminding me to try lubing the mags and assuring me that I would be taken care of if I could not solve the problem on my own.

And thanks Throttle Monkey for your willingness to help - I have been trying to make it up to Edmonton for a while, but work has been making it impossible for me to get there.

Now that I have a functional rifle I can definitely say it as as awsome as I had expected it to be... expect some accuracy results in one of the other threads once time allows.
 
I'm gonna lube the schiesse out of mine too. I had the same major issues as you, but went a different route, which was much more labor intensive than a simple lube job.
 
I haven't had any issues with mine. But I pretty much bath my rifles in G96. I use the extra that's wiped off on the mag bodies, and always put some in the mag well. I know it goes against some people's cleaning regiments, but it's worked very well for me. Easy to clean them after, no failures, prevents wear and even metal fatigue. I do this with all my firearms and mags.

I know fireball didn't have any issues with his either and he also uses a lot of G96. However when it went out for testing later, we heard the person was having reliability issues. Considering how many rounds were sent downrange with no issues by Fireball we thought this was really strange. Glad to see there's an explanation.
 
Actually I did both...lubed the internals and also fixed the original supplied mag as per Throttle...no issues at all now with commercial rounds. I don't reload but almost all reloads I've tried through the RFB have had FTF issues. I do have alot of PRVI around and the RFB seems to love the stuff. I think I'll just stick with that and use the rest of the rounds for my other .308 rifles.
 
This was a last ditch effort before sending my rifle back to Kel-Tec. I used an oil soaked Q-tip to apply as much oil as the metal would hold without dripping. It will probably collect a garden full of dirt once things get dry around here, so the mags will probably need regular cleanings, but at least the rifle works. I did not use any special high tech oil - I think it was an old bottle of Outers 'gun oil' I have had for 10 years.
 
You don't ideally want an oil. G96 is a metal conditioner so the metal will stay slick even when it's not dripping with oil.
 
I've also read of guys having their FAL mag bodies and springs Teflon coated. Pricey, but it would do the trick, until it wears off.
 
Lubing a magazine go's against EVERYTHING I ever learned about firearms maintenance.

Dirt and crud in a magazine is a surefire way to induce malfunctions.

That the manufacturer recommends it says a lot towards their credibility in the firearms design business. That and the magazines need to be 'fixed' to work properly.

IMO, Keltec = Junk.
 
Calling KelTec junk is a little harsh considering almost all issues are from the mags (which KT doesn't make).
 
from what I have read, here and elsewhere, you just need to wear the mags down from mag changes for the fit, and lube your mags until they are broken in properly. doesnt sound like its a major problem to me. I would gladly purchase an RFB if they were available. (ie the year long waitlist lol)
 
juliet lima said:
Lubing a magazine go's against EVERYTHING I ever learned about firearms maintenance.

Dirt and crud in a magazine is a surefire way to induce malfunctions.

That the manufacturer recommends it says a lot towards their credibility in the firearms design business. That and the magazines need to be 'fixed' to work properly.

IMO, Keltec = Junk.
Click to expand...

Goes against everything I learned too. That being said most of the conventional teachings are based on obsolete cleaning supplies. CLP works fine for a lube. G96 however soaks into the metal pours. Even when the metal feels dry it's now slick. With mags you won't attract any extra dirt or risk oil getting into the ammo primer. Makes for fast mag changes with less wear on the metal surfaces. Plus cleaning the firearm no longer requires scrubbing. The carbon just wipes off. For semi autos I still also use conventional lube in the action after the G96 base.

The RFB isn't junk. It's just a reworked SVT40 or FN FAL. Solid design and decently built. So far I haven't had any issues with mine. Mine came with the small mag.
 
Brordo said:
Calling KelTec junk is a little harsh considering almost all issues are from the mags (which KT doesn't make).
Click to expand...

Indeed, the FAL mags just seem to be a poor design. I wonder if the FAL rifles ever had problems with the mags functioning?

The RFB is fantastic, but if I could change one thing on it that would be to make it use M14 mags; they seem more reliable, easier to unload, and there are a lot more M14 owners than FAL owners, so you would not need to buy a whole new set of magazines if you already owned an M14...

Hopefully they will build the .223 version on AR mags not something like Mini 14 mags. That being said, I don't know if I would trade my Tavor for a .223 RFB or not. The Tavor is pretty awsome, but forward ejecting is awsome and the way all rifles should be.
 
It looks like the bolt cycling time of the Keltech is on the fast side - drag inside the magazine makes feeding too slow to catch up with the cycling of the bolt.
 
Brordo said:
Calling KelTec junk is a little harsh considering almost all issues are from the mags (which KT doesn't make).
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree...IF those mags don't work in other guns either.

I've often been told that new FAL mags can be a bit twitchy, but if it's a known good mag then that's another story. If FAL mags that work fine in FALs need to get teflon coated to make an RFB work...then it's hard not to conclude that Kel-Tec is the same old company they were two years ago, when they were chiefly famous for making...how can i put this politely...firearms for individuals with a low capital expenditure tolerance.
 
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