I recently picked up my first rifle for deer and was wondering how many groups of 3 to 5 rounds I should be able to fire before worrying about over heating the barrel. That also runs in to how long between groups to provide a cool down period. Its a new 308 BLR takedown and sighting in the irons plus the scope and generally following the "practice, practice, practice" rule means more than a few days at the range. Being a newbie I am looking to hear from the voices of experience.
Sighting in a new BLR
- Thread starter Mrwired
- Start date
I usually fire an evenly spaced 3 shot group (approx 30 sec between shots) then leave the rifle down with the action open to let air help cool the barrel. I then walk down to the target check it out etc, return to the bench and make my adjustments and repeat. you are trying to simulate a hunting situation. A rapid fire 5 shot group is not real life situation and asking alot from a light barrel.
Once you are zeroed in you can try a 5 shot group but extend the time between firing.
Once you are zeroed in you can try a 5 shot group but extend the time between firing.
Both my BLRs (284Win & 358Win) shoot two that touch then the third about 1" away but if I space the shots out around 10 minutes for 3 it will clover leaf. The thin barrels on mine heat up fast.
That's my 358Win in the picture to the left.
That's my 358Win in the picture to the left.
tylerjwitty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ontario
hmmm im going to have to find that artical that heat doesn't effect point of aim enough to matter in a hunting situation. long time ago...
Some of you don't like to hear me repeat how things "used to be." However, all this talk about slow firing, to keep the barrel from heating up, etc, is from a new wave of shooters, who, for the most part, are shooters and not riflemen.
Most old time shooters with bolt action rifles, had their rifles bedded, so they could shoot five shots without the rifle walking the bullets.
Many of us used to shoot in competitions with our sporting rifles. Every competition had time limits, on how long you were alowed to get your five or ten shots off. Certainly, you were not allowed enough time to let the barrel cool during shooting!
Even bench rest shooters in sporting weight competitions are up against time limits.
Whenever I got a bolt action rifle, and I've had more than a few, the first task was to take them to the range and carefully fire five rounds, one after the other. If they made a nice group, without walking the bullets, happy days, we just sighted in. If they made a poor group, or walked the bullets, usually up, but could be any direction, we just quit firing, went home and took the rifle apart, to work on the bedding.
Over the years I have never had a bolt action rifle that I could not bed, so it would keep shooting to the same point of impact, as the barrel heated up.
Not all rifles are capable of consistant MOA groups, but none should walk the bullets as the barrel heats up. I had a very nice rifle,which I liked very much, but it would not group better than, maybe a bit under 2 inches, at a hundred yards. It obviously had a faulty barrel. I long ago sold the rifle, but I still have the remains of boxes of many different bullet types and notes on many different powders tried in it, but to no avail.
In the mid 1960s I purchased the finest rifle I maybe ever had. I bought a L61 Sako Finnbear in 270. The first time I took it to the range I litterally prayed that it would not walk the bullets. No luck. After three they started to go up and off to the side. It took me about three times of bedding and shooting, before I got it right. But, it was with a great deal of satisfaction that I finally could make a sub one inch, five group at a 100 yards, with the barrel too hot to hold onto.
I doubt if I have changed anyones opinion on all of this, so just carry on, let your rifle barrel cool and eventually put three shots into a good group.
But I shudder to think how you would make out if you were in a real life shooting competition with such a rifle!
Edited to say I just now noticed that the original post was about a lever rifle. So, sorry for all this about a bolt action, on your posting. Didn't mean to hijack it, just failed to read your post correctly.
Most old time shooters with bolt action rifles, had their rifles bedded, so they could shoot five shots without the rifle walking the bullets.
Many of us used to shoot in competitions with our sporting rifles. Every competition had time limits, on how long you were alowed to get your five or ten shots off. Certainly, you were not allowed enough time to let the barrel cool during shooting!
Even bench rest shooters in sporting weight competitions are up against time limits.
Whenever I got a bolt action rifle, and I've had more than a few, the first task was to take them to the range and carefully fire five rounds, one after the other. If they made a nice group, without walking the bullets, happy days, we just sighted in. If they made a poor group, or walked the bullets, usually up, but could be any direction, we just quit firing, went home and took the rifle apart, to work on the bedding.
Over the years I have never had a bolt action rifle that I could not bed, so it would keep shooting to the same point of impact, as the barrel heated up.
Not all rifles are capable of consistant MOA groups, but none should walk the bullets as the barrel heats up. I had a very nice rifle,which I liked very much, but it would not group better than, maybe a bit under 2 inches, at a hundred yards. It obviously had a faulty barrel. I long ago sold the rifle, but I still have the remains of boxes of many different bullet types and notes on many different powders tried in it, but to no avail.
In the mid 1960s I purchased the finest rifle I maybe ever had. I bought a L61 Sako Finnbear in 270. The first time I took it to the range I litterally prayed that it would not walk the bullets. No luck. After three they started to go up and off to the side. It took me about three times of bedding and shooting, before I got it right. But, it was with a great deal of satisfaction that I finally could make a sub one inch, five group at a 100 yards, with the barrel too hot to hold onto.
I doubt if I have changed anyones opinion on all of this, so just carry on, let your rifle barrel cool and eventually put three shots into a good group.
But I shudder to think how you would make out if you were in a real life shooting competition with such a rifle!
Edited to say I just now noticed that the original post was about a lever rifle. So, sorry for all this about a bolt action, on your posting. Didn't mean to hijack it, just failed to read your post correctly.
That's a mighty skookum task you asked me there partner, "What is bedding."
I have been quoting from a book named, "The Accurate Riflle, by Warren Page."
In my old fashioned mind, I just assumed everyone knew who Warren Page was. In that wonderful era of shooting, for about twenty five years following World War 2, Warren Page was a household name, even in Canada.
Then, I asked a shooter, hunter, reloader, friend who is in his 50s what he knew of Warren Page, and he had never heard of him! So, some explanation is in order.
Here is what is on the back cover of the book, describing him. At the bottom of the page is a list of the chapters in the book.
Since he has a whole chapter on bedding the rifle, I can't get it in, here.
What I did, however, was copy the opening of that chapter.
I have been quoting from a book named, "The Accurate Riflle, by Warren Page."
In my old fashioned mind, I just assumed everyone knew who Warren Page was. In that wonderful era of shooting, for about twenty five years following World War 2, Warren Page was a household name, even in Canada.
Then, I asked a shooter, hunter, reloader, friend who is in his 50s what he knew of Warren Page, and he had never heard of him! So, some explanation is in order.
Here is what is on the back cover of the book, describing him. At the bottom of the page is a list of the chapters in the book.
Since he has a whole chapter on bedding the rifle, I can't get it in, here.
What I did, however, was copy the opening of that chapter.
Bruce,
Nice of you to chime in with that info. It applies regardless of rifle type IMO other than the bedding used in the Browning.
The blr I used 15 years ago would give 2" groups hot and a half inch smaller when spaced out.
Nice of you to chime in with that info. It applies regardless of rifle type IMO other than the bedding used in the Browning.
The blr I used 15 years ago would give 2" groups hot and a half inch smaller when spaced out.
I agree with that. I don't shoot bench rest, I hunt and want to know where my first shot goes. For sighting in isn't the purpose of grouping to zero in the rifle?
The other thing not mentioned is whether or not a new barrel changes its point of impact after it is broken in? I don't know the answer but I do know that some of my rifles seem to need a complete sighting in every year whereas on others the POI changes little if at all from year to year and only a minimal adjustment is required.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You won't be shooting game with a hot barrel, so all the talk about it performing while warm is silly.
Use your irons to get the scope on paper @ 25 or 50y, whatever you like. Take 5 shots, then wait 10-15 minutes with the action open. Move your target to 100y and take 5 more shots, wait 10-15 more minutes. Fire 15 shots and you'll have it sighted in for sure, then 5 more just to make sure.
Make sure that rifle is on sandbags!
Use your irons to get the scope on paper @ 25 or 50y, whatever you like. Take 5 shots, then wait 10-15 minutes with the action open. Move your target to 100y and take 5 more shots, wait 10-15 more minutes. Fire 15 shots and you'll have it sighted in for sure, then 5 more just to make sure.
Make sure that rifle is on sandbags!
powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
thin barrels on the BLRs will heat up quick and groups will open up quick too. you can shoot off a mag quick, but let it cool down before doing it again.
for best groups, let it cool down before each round.
pick up a .22 semi auto for the in between coolings.
for best groups, let it cool down before each round.
pick up a .22 semi auto for the in between coolings.
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
Powder Burner read my book. Bring a few guns. I can't count the times I have filled in the cooling times with the 10/22.
I realize everyone is correct here. Good info on bedding, Bruce and, bedding or not, it's the first shot that counts. My BLR is what it is right out of the box...very accurate and very nice.
I realize everyone is correct here. Good info on bedding, Bruce and, bedding or not, it's the first shot that counts. My BLR is what it is right out of the box...very accurate and very nice.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I concur on BLR81 .308 WIN as well. Tightest groups obtainable in mine was with 165gr hornady spire points over 748. Two touching then the GD third out to 1.25 inches! Everytime.
Most loads both handloads and Factory fall in the 2 to 3.25 range.
Crank out 5 in a row and hope you can keep them all on a 1 liter ice cream cover @ 100yds
Where does the first two squeezed of rounds from your benchrest fly in each 3-shot group. This is the practical group size on a Hunting BLR. Widening in successive groups after 2nd shot, is the BLR's only weakness and for a sporter on deer sized game at hunting distances with one shot usually doing the trick it is only a very minor handicap.
If you are going to scope I wouldn't waste too much time, money, frustrations on those iron sights.
I really hate to drop a deuce In every bodies corn flakes this morning...My pops has a BLR in 308, and at 80 yards can mutilate a pop can with a gun load then a second clip full with no cooling whatsoever. My cousin also has a BLR In 308, his gun can also sling lead fast and hit where it is supposed too...Again not trying to ruin any bodies day here just what I've seen from both guns.
"----long time ago."
Shooters knew much more about rifles and shooting, than does the average modern shooter!
I was an active shooter for, probably at least 40 years, before I heard people talk about super slow fire shooting, to keep the barrel from heating.
Anyone with enough savy on shooting, to call himelf a shooter, knew a rifle barrel had to be properly bedded, or else the bullets would "walk," as the barrel heated.
I have never had a bolt action centre fire rifle that I could not tune, to keep the same group, as the barrel heated from shooting.
How do you think all the competitions were held? All those world class shooters competing with slim barrelled Lee Enfields, two sighter shots then ten on target, one shot right after the other, to meet the time allotted for the shoot.
How long do you think a major competitive shooter would put up with a rifle that changed point of impact, as the barrel heated?
We're familiar with the famous phrase by Townsend Whelen, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." How long do you think he would ut up with a sporting rifle that changed point of impact as the barrel warmed up?
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
So...Bruce...I should sell my BLR 81 since, by its very nature, it cannot be bedded? 
