My new 308 Norma

[Leeper]

I seem to recall that Speer chronographed early 308 Norma ammunition (180 grain, of course) at 3140 fps from a 24 inch barrel. That stuff was hot! Often, the brass was not reloadable because the primer pockets had expanded with the first firing. Later on. Norma increased the case capacity by thinning the web and sidewalls slightly and velocity dropped off a bit along with the pressure. I've always been happy to hit 3000 fps with 180's. Brass lasts forever and I don't have to worry about any pressure induced malfunctions. I have always liked the 308 Norma over all other 30 cal magnums. Regards, Bill.

 

[kamlooky]

Went out to the looky cave and rumaged around and found an old 308 Norma Magnum
cartridge box. On the back cover it goes like this...........

Magnum Ballistics, Standard-Length Action!

The new 308 norma magnum cartridges

a 30 caliber version of the powerful 358 Norma Magnum big game cartridge.
The 308 Norma Magnum is built on the famous Norma Re-loadable cartridge
case, and can be reloaded with standard 30 caliber bullets.

The factory round is loaded with the

norma "DUAL-CORE" bullet

a new Norma bullet design with the double killing powder due to its easily expanding
front core and tough rear core, securing maximum penetration.

Muzzle velocity 3100 feet per second, muzzle energy 3842 foot pounds. Chambering
reamers and reloading dies are available from leading American makers. For
loading data write Norma.

We guarantee the exercise of reasonable care in manufacture but assure no further
responsibility.
________________________________________________________________________

MADE BY AB NORMA PROJECKTILFABRIK-670 40 AMOTFORS-SWEDEN

 

[Johnn Peterson]

I seem to recall that Speer chronographed early 308 Norma ammunition (180 grain, of course) at 3140 fps from a 24 inch barrel. That stuff was hot! Often, the brass was not reloadable because the primer pockets had expanded with the first firing. Later on. Norma increased the case capacity by thinning the web and sidewalls slightly and velocity dropped off a bit along with the pressure. I've always been happy to hit 3000 fps with 180's. Brass lasts forever and I don't have to worry about any pressure induced malfunctions. I have always liked the 308 Norma over all other 30 cal magnums. Regards, Bill.

With the exception of the time during which the starting rifle I had was a 'Simpon-Sears' sporterized 303 Br., I've always had a 308 Norma Magnum in the cabnet. As with you, it's my favorite 30 cal Magnum. There've been a couple others I've had but the 308 NM is the favorite. My first was a Parker Hale but the keeper I still have is a 65DL Schultz & Larsen.

When I first got my Parker Hale and being used to paying $3.50/box for 303 Br. ammo, paying $8.10/box was quite a shock. The earlier Norma factory ammo did seem warmer than what came later but I've never had any brass fromback then to present that I ever had any reloading 'issues' with.

I wasn't aware any changes had been made by Norma to their 308 NM brass but I know they apparently did make changes to their 7x61 S&H brass. Supposedly changes along the line of what you've mentioned, design changes to the interior profile/dimensions of the case and also a change to the metallurgy of the brass. As I understand it, this was done to the 7x61 S&H case to compete with the new kid on the block, the 7mm Remington Magnum.

I've always been pleased with the accuracy I've obtained with the 308 NM, both with the Norma factory ammo as well as with reloads. It's a caliber I'm changing over to Barnes TTSX bullets in but I was never disappointed with the accuracy and results on game using handloads with the 200gr Sierra SBT's.

It's a load I've worked up, starting with info from an earlier Sierra manual, plus I extended the C.O.A.L. to minimize freebore,

 

[Eagleye]

In the mid 1960s Schultz and Larson rifles, mostly in 7x61 and 308 Norma, became very popular in north central BC.
However, the Norma ammo of the day, which appeared very hot, had a "R" stamped on the base. Later Norma ammo did not have this R on it.
So, I am wondering, if you or your Dad, ever chronographed the ammo with the R, and if so, how did it compare with the ammo that does not have the R?
Or, has your Dad ever talked about this early Norma ammo?

H4831, you may remember the first 308 Norma Mag I had...I shot it one year only at the Rifleman's Rodeo in Salmon Arm. [1960's] It was a Parker Hale Safari with a 22" barrel. I 'graphed some of that early ammo out of it. The chrony was an old type that you shot through metallic paper screens and the chrony gave out a number that you had to look up in a manual to get actual velocity..lol.
As I remember, it interpreted to 3085 avg for 3 shots, so it was plenty warm. I still have a couple of boxes of those cases with the little "Re" in the headstamp. I believe that stamping indicated that the case was reloadable with boxer primers. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[Eagleye]

With the exception of the time during which the starting rifle I had was a 'Simpon-Sears' sporterized 303 Br., I've always had a 308 Norma Magnum in the cabnet. As with you, it's my favorite 30 cal Magnum. There've been a couple others I've had but the 308 NM is the favorite. My first was a Parker Hale but the keeper I still have is a 65DL Schultz & Larsen.

I wasn't aware any changes had been made by Norma to their 308 NM brass but I know they apparently did make changes to their 7x61 S&H brass. Supposedly changes along the line of what you've mentioned, design changes to the interior profile/dimensions of the case and also a change to the metallurgy of the brass. As I understand it, this was done to the 7x61 S&H case to compete with the new kid on the block, the 7mm Remington Magnum.

Johnn, It has always been my favorite 30 cal magnum as well. As to your statement regarding the 7x61, I can add a bit. The early 7x61 cases, like the early 308 Norma Mag cases, had the little "Re" on the headstamp, and were headstamped "Norma 7x61 S&H". In 7x61, they were a bit heavier and somewhat softer than the later cases were. When Norma lightened the 7x61 cases, and changed the metallurgy a bit, the headstamp changed to "Norma Super 7x61" These were definitely better cases than were the earlier ones in 7x61. In my personal experience, I have not seen the same amount of difference with the early/late 308 Norma Mag cases. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[Camp Cook]

I hunted and killed more big game over 25 years with my 308 NM made in Germany Voere action rifle than any other rifle/cartridge combo I have ever owned.

With 75grs Norma MRP powder under any 180gr bullet = 3060fps (this is the load Norma used in their factory ammo) it consistently gave me 3/4" or better 100 yard 3 shot groups but alas one day the groups started to open up to 1 1/2" or greater and no matter what I did to it I couldn't fix it so it is now handed down to my son and I have a new Rem 700 LSS in 300RUM that he borrows.

Rembo that is a very nice rifle makes me want to put a new barrel onto my old rifle...

CC

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Johnn, It has always been my favorite 30 cal magnum as well. As to your statement regarding the 7x61, I can add a bit. The early 7x61 cases, like the early 308 Norma Mag cases, had the little "Re" on the headstamp, and were headstamped "Norma 7x61 S&H". In 7x61, they were a bit heavier and somewhat softer than the later cases were. When Norma lightened the 7x61 cases, and changed the metallurgy a bit, the headstamp changed to "Norma Super 7x61" These were definitely better cases than were the earlier ones in 7x61. In my personal experience, I have not seen the same amount of difference with the early/late 308 Norma Mag cases. Regards, Eagleye.

Thanks. I neglected to mention that headstamp change. On the 308 NM brass, I've never noticed any significant difference between that with Re on the headstamp and that without. Even so, with the stock I have on hand I still keep it separated on a basis of that headstamp difference.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Johnn, It has always been my favorite 30 cal magnum as well.

In the previous post I forgot to mention how I got my first, the Parker Hale. Upgrading from the "bubb'd" 303's we had, Dad ordered a pair of standard grade Husqvarnas in 30-06. Only one came in, a light weight with very nice wood.

I noticed Dad almost drooling when he asked me if I wanted it but seeing as it was the first really nice rifle Dad had ever had I turned it down for him. I said I'd find something else. As luck would have it, a guy in town that was quite a hunter and a gunsmith, stopped in where Dad worked and Dad inquired if he had anything 'available'. He said he did although it may be a little too much. He said he'd take me out shooting and if I could handle it, he'd sell it to me. Long story short, the targets were a couple of small Pacific Milk cans at about 125 yds. Two shots from a rest, two dead cans and he said "it's yours if you want".

I was thrilled!! It was a Parker Hale, 1200 series (or Super Safari I think)with roll over chek piece. Far 'prettier' than my 303 and as such, my obvious question to him was "why would you sell something that looked that nice"? He told me, "because I just got this", and showed me a Schultz & Larsen in 308 NM. As pretty as the parker Hale was, looking at the Schultz I promised myself, "one day I'll have one of those".The rest is history.

 

[H4831]

Eagleye, I can't really remember your first 308 Norma. There were a lot of different calibres at those early Rifleman shoots. Then it became obvious that a big kicker was a huge detriment to winning! A couple of families from Calgary proved that the short little 6mm, beat a 243 or 6mm Remington, because of recoil!
I have recounted on here before about testing and sighting in rifles at a retail store. At that time, early to mid 1960s, many hunters wanted their rifles sighted in, after having one of them new fangled scopes mounted. Thus, I sighted in many rifles in various makes. By far, the most accurate new rifles were the Schultz and Larson, in both 7x61 and 308 Norma. It was usually a Weaver K4 or a Bushnell 4x Scopechief we put on them. I would take them to the range and if five shots didn't go to one inch, or very close to it, it was because of me. I remember one weekend when I had 5 different S & L 7x61s to sight.
One time I sighted in a 308 Norma and it shot so well, when the next day, Sunday, there was a country turkey shoot. So I took the customers rifle to the turkey shoot!
Cam I looked up my old Norma charts and they show 76.7 grains of N205, the forerunner of MRP, in a 308 Norma with 180 grain bullet. They show 3100. I have also often said how the Norma charts were the only charts I have ever seen for rifle, that gave accurate velocity figures.
Like the same charts show 60.5 grains of N205 in a 30-06 with 200 grain bullet, for 2684 fps. I built up to 61 grains of that in my 30-06 and it registered 2715 over the Oehler.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Bruce, the comments and sentiments you've expressed concerning Schultz & Larsen rifles echo those of the European gunsmith I purchased the Parker Hale from. After moving to the coast I returned to my old home in the interior for a yearly Moose hunt. On this, one of the earlier trips, I was told that Steve, the gunsmith, was retired and now residing in a small local hotel. We went to town one evening, met him and I introduced my trip partners to him. We invited him to have supper with us, during which a topic of conversation quite naturally went to firearms. He wasn't suprised to hear that I had acquired a Schultz. His opinion and findings on the accuracy of Schultz & Larsen coincide with yours. His reasoning, two points stand out. First,the workmanship that goes into them and the quality will match any and second, the barrels used are second to none. I believe he classified them as the equivalent of 'Douglas Air Guage'.

 

[ZKK]

Beauty! I have 2 of them on - what else, ZKK 600 actions. It's a great calibre with a better neck for reloading than the 300 Win Mag. I get just over 3100 fps out of a 23.5 inch barrel with 180 gr bullets on my favourite.